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If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people
April 13, 2016

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 13, 2016

Bob,I find it difficult at the best of times to believe ANYTHING this or any other party say or do when in government. So from what you say above, you are obviously the same as me....totally confused and bemused. The rulers we have are in a different world, and know nothing about the people (US), who vote these people in and out. Even then, nothing seems to change, since they are all in it for themselves, and blow the rest of the UK inhabitants and their wishes.. Thus, I feel that the IN/OUT vote is a chirade, since these EU unelected leaders are in it for life, either in the government or the opposition, and the Lord help the others (us). My In/Out referendum leaflet arrived today, and after reading it I now feel even more isolated from the need for this referendum than ever. The bull**** in this document is a load of rubbish, it tells me nothing new, is one sided (for EU) and stresses the importance in remaining in the EU (WHY???) This pamphlet is rubbish, and one sided, pressing us all to vote "IN" and quoting all the bad things we would suffer if we left, and none of the benefits of coming out. COMPLETE BIAS!!! I am also confused over the statement that covers the right to vote on this issue of IN/OUT, where it says we must all be registered if we want to vote, and this pamphlet says we need to be registered in the new electoral register?  WHY WHY WHY? I bet an awful lot of voters do not know that. If we are on the previous electoral roll, why do we need to register into the new register? It could be a "leaders in power at present" way of manipulating the figures by claiming many voters are no longer valid to vote. Underhand and devious to say the least... Roll on the Revolution???

April 14, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 683
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 14, 2016

Any exit from the EU will be complicated and will likely take 2 years to effect in full. I do think the Government will accede to the outcome of the poll as it would crash and burn if it didn't and anyway constitutionally it would have no choice. I still do not think the Brexit side will win even though I hope it does. There are too many people fearful of the possible consequences of leaving as the whole world seems to be putting the frighteners on us; added to which  the Brexit campaign doesn't have the gravitas or the wherewithall of the Government sponsored  Better Together, or whatever it is called, campaign. I believe it will be a close call but a 54% majority will vote to stay in. THEN we will learn just how much we are to be stuffed by the bloated fatcats of Brussels!!!

April 14, 2016

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1204
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 14, 2016

With the headlines of labour leader Comrade Corbyn now doing a 180 degree turnaround with his proposal to stay in IN when for the last 40 odd years he's been an anti EU/common market,yes that's frightening for him changing his doctorine, he's most probably been offered a job in Brussels!!

April 14, 2016

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1204
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 14, 2016

Me again ,reading today in the Irish Daily Mail about Brexit, now as you've seen in the media over the Easter festivities Ireland was celebrating their rebellion against the Empire. Yes they are 26 counties of freedom,but in the EU and worst still in the Euro,I'll paint the picture "Celtic Tiger" cheap money the Irish went bananas then bankruptcy owing about 200 billion to the IMF/European central bank. Mass migration to all parts of the old empire ( Canada/Australia/New Zealand and the USA)  over the last couple of years over a quarter of a million young people gone. So you get on with it ,one minute the Irish as a nation wouldn't pee on Britain if it was fire ,now with Brexit they suddenly relized that over a billion euros in goods is sold to the UK a week ,Britain is now their best friend and shouldn't leave the EU.......so that's a small country like Ireland,now what will the big countries France/Spain/Germany with dealing into the UK of a few bob more decide tariffs are a double edged tax.......making all these scare tactics a bit of a "........." ..........." Fill in the blanks yourselves

April 14, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 683
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 14, 2016

A couple of years ago we were in Dublin for a long weekend, stayed in a nice hotel right on the Liffey. Dublin was inundated with poles, every restaurant, hotel and bar was full of them hardly came across any Irish staff working there at all. It might have changed since. We also saw on the outskirts huge half finished housing estates, taxi driver said the money had run out. I often wonder if they were ever finished!

April 14, 2016

Joined: May 9, 2014
Posts: 21
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 14, 2016

I remember the original concept was 'The Common Market', mainly a trading deal with he idea of integrating the tariffs between European countries. Which I was happy to vote for.Now it seems every country north of the equator have a finger in the pie, an we (UK) seem have he lions share  of propping up the rest. The 'in ' campaigners believe that once we are 'in' we can change things to our advantage. I would prefer to see the changes agreed and carved in stone before we sign up. Now that Corbin, who opposed the EU for years has pitched 'in', if only to oppose Cameron's line, I am veering strongly to the 'out' lobby.      

April 14, 2016

Joined: May 9, 2014
Posts: 21
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 14, 2016

PS., Noticed todays date  ???  

April 14, 2016

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 14, 2016

Jim, Yes I noticed that, it was as if it was set up for us ex 3DG guys, but it did not register immediately , then it dawned on me! I suddenly realised the significance !

April 16, 2016

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 16, 2016

The vote for "In" or "out"  and the threats of unmitigated disaster if we vote to leave has now reached far beyond the pathetic reporting of doom and disaster if we DO leave coming from the loudmouths of the "stay in" brigade. It is now well beyond the farcical, they are making suggestions of all sorts of mayhem if the vote is for "out", but none of it has any truth or fact, and some threats from these doomsters is now bordering on the hysterical to say the least. The bias from these doomsters is beyond belief, and I think that the £3 million spent on the pamphlet aka "the book of doom" is a waste of money which politicians are so keen to spend on lies, downright lies and cloud cuckoo land narrative, to get what they want. The daft thing is that WE voted for the present MPs to represent us, but it just shows that what we think we are getting is NOT what we are given from ANY party in UK these days. They have devastated our Armed Forces, which they seem to think we do not need, but have never needed so much before, yet spend millions on financial support to countries who do not deserve, or even need money from anyone. We are daft enough to give it to them though!!!. The daftest thing of all is that the EU is sitting back, letting our MPs and Leaders of Industry and Commerce create and  enforce the rule of "stay in". The EU are happy at our shilly shallying, they need to do anything, our leaders are doing for them!!!! Welcome to world of fibs, lies, and downright lies my friends...

April 16, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 683
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 16, 2016

I personally believe we should leave, I have had enough of the farce that is the EU, the mindless diktats that emanate from Brussels, the ceaseless move towards a federalist Europe, loss of our sovereign rights, the mass economic immigration problem et al. The Brexit campaigners are scaremongering, they ARE painting the worst possible scenario and they ARE hyping the whole thing up. I entirely recognise there WILL be downsides to leaving the EU. It is a fact that if we wish to continue to trade with the EU we WILL still have to abide by THEIR rules to do so. We DO export more to the EU than we import, they ARE our single biggest export market and their trade agreements with other non EU members DO mean those countries have to play by EU rules to trade with them. That said Boris and Gove are also being just as disingenuous.  When I read the latest Brexit campaign headline suggesting we would immediately gain £365m per year in what we pay the EU to be a member if we leave I KNOW they are treating us as fools, just as the Stay In campaigners are doing. Almost two thirds of that £365m is paid back to us in subsidies in one form or another. Also that sum is chicken feed against the £12 BILLION we pay per year in overseas aid. Now that LATTER sum really would save the NHS and some other crucial things besides. It's all lies lies tempered with a few untruths. There is simply no available unbiased, factual and accurate account of the pros and cons of staying in or leaving. I believe many people will be scared into voting to stay because of the almost global view that we would struggle financially if we left. I also believe many people are wholly unaware of the downsides of leaving. In essence I believe the majority of the electorate (myself included) have no real, in depth knowledge of what is actually the best way forward. To that end  I will go with my gut feeling and vote leave, I will do so because I can see other countries within Europe have managed to survive without being members of this dictatorship. I will vote to leave because I find much of what emanates from the EU to be stomach churningly awful and I want to see us able to make our own laws,  run our own country and be ,masters of our own destiny. It's just that I accept there will be a price to pay for doing so. I hope everyone else knows that!

April 16, 2016

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1204
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 16, 2016

Gut feeling eh,David your post explained that the information circulating the media is mostly scaremongering,big scary headlines. The latest is from the chancellor about the interest rate on mortgages,funny with living in the euro area they have had the lowest rate running for the last 5/6 years through boom/bust and are in so much debt ,now if an independent pound ( which the UK has ) it would be suicide for the government to impose a high bank rate at the next election.  We all know that the future is the undiscovered country , and as the UK has been around a lot longer that this European Union, so we've seen the back of the Soviet Union,Natzi Germany and other problems going back to Napoleon and the Armada,notice these threats to Britain/United Kingdom have all come from Europe,so I think we should do okay getting out and  being on our own ,not looking over our shoulders at what coming out of Brussels bureaucracy.

April 16, 2016

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 556
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 16, 2016

Dave, The figure on the "Out" pamphlet I received through the letterbox was £350 million per WEEK that the UK pays into the EU. I also read somewhere that we get roughly half that amount back in subsidies & grants. Whatever the real figures, it's still a tremendous amount of money that could be better spent by our own Government, because that "other half" of the weekly £350 m is either wasted by Brussels Eurocrats, or used to prop up the failing economies of countries like Greece etc. It would be better spent "at home", we've plenty of deserving causes ourselves here that need addressing quite urgently. With regards Corbyn's U turn, he's done that purely to save his job as Leader because he knew the majority of Labour MP's would have ousted him otherwise - so much for standing by his principles, the two faced git -he's been totally opposed to the EU since God was a lad, but a sniff of power has altered his opinion ! His "mates" all probably have an eye on becoming a fat cat MEP (like Kinnock did) if we stay "in". As Jim Q mentioned, the original "Common Market" seemed a good idea, likened to the pricing benefits of a supermarket (large scale purchasing power) compared to the "corner shop". 10 original members has swollen to 27, the HQ (Brussels) has escalated their powers from just trading to law making, opening borders, attempting to force all members to a single currency (thankfully the UK resisted), coercing member states to quota immigration, and ludicrous use of Health & Safety rules & the Human Rights Act, etc etc. With Germany,  (& France hanging onto its lederhosen),  a European Superstate (with them as Leaders) seems the aim, which would finally put the nail in the coffin of our sovereignty, and our Armed Forces then being "centralised" under EU command - I shudder at the thought. In summary, the EU has become IMO, unwieldy, too powerful, too full of it's own importance, too open to corruption, greedy & selfish, and to get all 27 member states to agree on any policy is nigh on an impossibility because each one wants to "feather it's own nest" first, therefore what Germany wants will prevail ! I guess you know which way I'll be voting, but in case I wasn't clear, it'll be "OUT" !! PS And I haven't even mentioned the disastrous consequences of letting Turkey in to the EU - to paraphrase Victor Meldrew   "I Don't Believe It !!" John (JKW)  

April 16, 2016

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 16, 2016

It all goes back to one thing, and that is that our government do not have the guts to tell the EU that we will not bow to the dictats of unelected, idle, overpaid, Eurocrats. As Bob R says, we have withstood all that the rest of Europe and a lot of the rest of the world can throw at us, whether it be wars, laws or orders from these EU unelected, self important morons called the European Council. We have protected ourselves for centuries without orders from others, and stood alone before, so we know as a nation that we CAN look after ourselves very well, thank you, Brussels, so you must go back to your own little world of insignificance, and leave us in peace. With all the money we presently send to Brussels, some small amount which we are given back to us (under duress from us, no doubt). ALL the money we send annually to Brussels is better off where it belongs, here, where we can use it properly to help the NHS, Homeless people, Armed Forces, Police, and the Civil Servants who do the real jobs within government. BUT, we will not see that happen, since Cameron and co will not admit they have made a huge mistake in bending the knee to the unelected rulers of Europe, against our wishes. Cameron and all the ruling government will not admit their mistake, and will not tell the EU we are leaving. There is NO possibility that Europe will declare war on UK by our departure, they are the ones making the mistake. The same sentiments go as regards UK sending such vast monies to overseas countries, both good ones and bad, we must keep it all in UK where it rightly belongs, and use it to sort out the general problems we have here, not subsidising criminal despotic governments overseas, who do not like us but are willing to take our money. But Cameron and co are too weak and scared to do this, and sort out this complete shambles called "THE EU". Churchill would have shown them all the door immediately and forever. If Cameron would only tell the truth, that he is scared of the EU, and of losing face if he demands to leave this vipers den called EU immediatelly, and not send another groat to EU, ever again, we would be better off instantly. He will not say anything, he does not have the guts.

April 17, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 683
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 17, 2016

So; on reading JKW's post I did some PROPER research and, I have to admit, he is right apropos the figures he quotes being WEEKLY amounts payable to the EU. We pay about £12 billion per year to the EU and get back, as John rightly asserts, about 50% of that figure in subsidies et al. A net contribution of £6 million is still a huge sum of money, I must avoid reading propaganda reports in future and choose my sources of information more carefully. That said, my point apropos Brexit not being entirely upfront apropos the downsides of leaving remains extant. The same research that showed me John's figures are the correct ones also pointed out that non EU members (such as Norway and Switzerland) had to negotiate trade agreements with the EU that included inter alia, substantial, yearly financial contributions to the EU trade budget and an undertaking to allow all and any EU nationals to live and work in their countries. SO; how much of the £6 billion net we currently pay to the EU will be offset by what we have to pay to trade with them post Brexit?? How will our immigration figures be any better or our benefits bill for EU nationals improve if we have to abide by the same rules as now in order to continue to trade with the EU? Just 2 questions I would like to see answers to. there care other stipulations that the EU sets for non members wishing to trade with them.  I don't believe the EU will want to hinder trade between the UK and the EU's 27  (then 26 perhaps) member countries but there WILL be a price to pay. The trading UPSIDE of leaving the UK will be that we can forge free trade agreements with the likes of China et al unhindered by EU regulations and rules imposed on its members. I just think the Brexit campaign is almost being as economical with the truth as the IN campaigners are.  Corbyn is , as JK again rightly asserts, entirely unconvinced that we should stay in. I also believe Michael Gove who is jointly leading the Brexit campaign, and has one of the most astute brains in the UK political scene at present, makes a strong argument for leaving. I just wish he and Cameron would ensure ALL the cards are laid on the table so those who are undecided and there are apparently lots of such people, can make an informed decision. And that is what I meant when I said my gut feeling was to vote OUT, I still don't have a balanced and full picture of the main pros and cons of the decision. SO; in the absence of that I will trust my instinct and vote to leave. I hope I am right!!

April 18, 2016

Joined: July 15, 2014
Posts: 51
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 18, 2016

My fear north of the border has always been that if the majority of voters living in Scotland vote to remain but the rest of the UK vote to leave then the SNP will use this as their reason to call another independence referendum and Wee Nicola is on record as confirming this. Now I fully accept I am looking at this from a very parochial viewpoint but we all have to look at the impact of IN or OUT on our own environment. Until recently I always thought the vast majority of SNP voters would vote to remain IN given the SNP are staunch supporters of the EU but recently there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that this might not be the case.  There are more and more committed SNP supporters (I have in the past referred to them as SNP nutters) who voted YES in the independence referendum that are now saying they will vote to LEAVE the EU. So perhaps for once Wee Nicola has misjudged the average Scottish/SNP voter and if others feel the way I do they will now have the confidence to vote with their gut instinct and not be afraid to vote to LEAVE because of the independence repercussions. If LEAVE voters are in the majority in Scotland then the SNP cannot say that Scotland has been forced out against the will of voters in Scotland.  My research isn’t scientific in the least, it is based on what I am picking up from social media and in general conversation.  There are some very vociferous absolutely solid YES voters who are for the first time questioning Wee Nicola’s opinion and judgement on the EU. I can now see the similarities between this referendum and the independence referendum, smoke and mirrors from both sides. I voted NO last time not because I wasn’t proud to be a Scot but because I was proud to be Scottish in the United Kingdom and wanted to remain that way. I am now leaning toward a LEAVE vote because I want that very same United Kingdom to make its own laws, protect its own borders and put the interests of the UK first.  


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