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If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people
April 18, 2016

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 18, 2016

I know that I am making assumptions on the honesty and integrity of our present leaders when they spout all this maybe/ won't be hysteriotic bull about us going to the dogs if we leave the EU, but will these same politicians who spout this rubbish be prepared to fall on their swords when the truth comes out when we depart the corrupt EU if the UK   votes for exit? I would not bet one millionth of a penny if they did fall on said sword. Perhaps I am being overly generous in their knowledge of swords, so we might have to teach them.... Or maybe being what they are, they may go home to mummy, and sulk their lives away. Either way we would be rid of them, scaremongers that they are. I for one will be voting "OUT" no matter what our politicians may say between now and June 23rd 2016.....The EU is a closed club of the unelected controlling the normal people, the population of the UK and the other members of the populace of the EU

April 22, 2016

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 22, 2016

Following the entry of President Obama into this non American referendum of ours, what allows him to even THINK that he has the right to advise us European countries on whether we should, in UK, be in or out of the EU? Another example of the US of A interfering in a matter that has nothing to do with them? Obama has now helped to concentrate our European minds on this topic of In or Out of the EU as far as UK is concerned. We in Europe have been dealing in local and international treaties and associations centuries before the U.S. of A stopped shooting the original natives of North America, so we neither need, nor want, Obama or ANY USA person to tell us what to do. We are more than capable of doing what is right without any person from ANY other country in this world from critisising and/or advising us on what is best for us. Obama has just put the OUT campaign well and truly ahead now,  the direct opposite of what HE thinks is best... Besides, UK is the only EU country who has the military ability to protect our UK from all sides. And on the day when more shootings in the good ole U.S. of A!!!!  Score now, USA nil, UK 100 . And the rest of Europe are in trouble now the Yanks are involved. Roll on the vote....

April 23, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 683
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 23, 2016

So, I will dare to be a bit contentious. Has Obama or the US in general, the right to advise us what to do apropos the EU? No, certainly not, it is OUR decision to make and Obama DID ensure he left the rostrum he spoke at with the words "it is now up to the British people to decide". BUT, my inner wisdom tells me he DOES have the right when asked, as he was, to tell us how it is, to explain what it might mean on a USA/GB basis if we left. He had the right to give us a no holds barred truthful exposition of the USA's stance on that issue. Whether we like it or not the US recognises the UK is the only real military deterrent within the EU and WE have been the only nation to stand by the US when push came to shove. BUT; in the last few decades that meant we dragged other EU partners along with us and the USA needed the combined political will of the 27 member states in times of crisis on  global issues. Would the USA countenance us interfering in THEIR political decisions?? No, it has to be said they wouldn't. Whose need is greater? Theirs or ours? Probably when it comes down to it we are the more vulnerable of the two. The USA relies on the collective political and trading powers of the EU to combat the Russian and Chinese threats. that's the reason he wants us to stay in, he knows the EU will be weaker, possibly even close to disintegrating if we leave. The decision IS ours alone but we should be circumspect enough to recognise pour allies have a vested interest in what we do and they have a right to voice their opinion. He at least has been honest. Just my opinion.

April 23, 2016

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 23, 2016

By now it is obvious that Obama is trying to ensure the UK stay, just to protect their back door in the event of any major "on the brink" problems over here. What he has not said outright is that WE have the right to choose how we vote, without any advice from the USA. He may well have had the best of intentions, but it is not up to him or the USA to tell us what to do. We have the only coherent EU military forces to defend his and our country, if needed, and are probably the only EU country to stand alongside them whether we are in or out of the EU. The vote is the business of all the members, and nobody else, whether they like it or not. The USA would not take kindly to the boot being on the other foot, i.e. us telling them to remain in any treaty THEY wanted out of. Let us be their great allies, as we are now,but not their subjects, and we will get along fine. Finally, I do know that the USA's nearest back door is Russia, not the EU, but that is another matter.... And I also realise that the vast majority of EU countries are also members of NATO, but how much support would he get from some of them?

April 24, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 683
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 24, 2016

Tom, he did actually explicitly say the decision rests with the British electorate, I watched the whole speech a couple of times but he did also say the USA had a right to voice its concerns and opinion on a matter that might adversely impact on it. Whether people think that latter statement is fair or not is a question of personal choice and belief. He absolutely IS trying to protect his back door, he absolutely IS scared that a Brexit would weaken the EU, and possibly even NATO, and leave the US without a consolidated West European bloc of allies. In essence he believes the UK is integral to any power that the EU might be perceived to have on the global stage. Personally, I believe our influence within the EU is minimal, like wise NATO. Our erstwhile position as the leading West European military is currently very tentative and service chiefs have apparently been reported to say we could not mount a stand alone major military operation in the foreseeable future. So, my position is, let's listen to the US, let's listen to the IMF, the EU leadership old Uncle Tom Cobbley and all because at least then we can gain the whole picture. Let's just temper it all with pragmatism, balanced judgement, an open mind and then vote OUT!!

April 24, 2016

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 555
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 24, 2016

As per usual Dave, some sound common sense points of interest raised . Like many, I was initially "narked" that President Obama had the audacity to advise us to stay "In", but I suppose, as the generally accepted Leader of the Free World, he DID have every right to state his opinion. I also suspected that our PM had put him up to it, but on reflection, Obama is far too savvy & far too powerful in his own right to be used that way, so I must accept that he is speaking the truth as he see's it. On the other hand, he probably is NOT seeing the problems we have with the dictats from the EU concerning our well being, our border controls, immigration, Health & Safety nonsense (most of it, anyway), prisoners voting rights (ha), and the ludicrous situation (s) whereby we cannot deport scumbags like Hamel Hanza( spelling ? - him with the hook) without crawling to the Court of Human Rights. Yes, the US President has some valid points, yes he's entitled to voice them, but we live in a democracy too, and we have every right to listen & then discard them by voting as we see fit FOR US, which in my case, will be a resounding "OUT". John (JKW)

April 25, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 683
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 25, 2016

I agree totally with your post John, I watched Obama again last evening talking to Huw Edwards who pointedly questioned him on the "back of the queue" statement he made that caused so much angst. Obama was really pragmatic, calm and measured in his words. he said the "special relationship" that endured between the two countries would always remain regardless of the outcome of the referendum. He did however say that the US WOULD prioritise trade agreements with large blocs of countries like the EU and he did say he thought we would be better off inside the EU helping change the decisions than being outside without any influence on it. His latter words fail to resonate with me and many others because we know that we have little or no influence on the unwieldy amorphous mass called the EU, we know the Brussels fat cats ride roughshod over their member states and we are totally peed off with the ludicrous diktats that emanate from them. I don't think Obama, for all his good intentions, actually realizes how moribund the whole stagnant mess called the EU is and how many of us are fed up to the back teeth with it all. That said, he is RIGHT to point out the potential pitfalls of leaving, I have always said people do need to understand there will be a price to pay........there always is. That price will include inter alia a substantial contribution for trade rights with the EU states AND an undertaking that all 26 EU state workers have the right to live and work here. So; it's just a question of the lesser of the two evils really and how much of the price being bandied around is real and how much is scaremongering. From my perspective, our loss of sovereignty, the net £6 billion we pay into the EU annually, their ever increasing advance towards federalism, the ridiculous diktats and the complete shambles regarding the migrant disaster along with the immigrant benefits farce and the open border policies collectively combine to cause me to vote OUT.

April 25, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 683
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 25, 2016

As an aside John, don't forget the ECHR, apropos deporting terrorists, is a separate entity  outwith of the EU and signed upto by the UK as a discrete treaty. Leaving the EU won't mean leaving the ECHR treaty. Sadly!!

April 25, 2016

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 555
If out will the politicians listen to the voice of the people

April 25, 2016

To add fuel to the fire, I personally dread the entry of Turkey into the EU, especially if "IN" wins the day. The thought of potentially millions of Turks, the vast majority being Muslims, joining their "brothers" over here is a disaster in the making. I'm not being racist here, just realistic, and come they will, because the well-intentioned Living Wage now available will attract them like the proverbial flies to sh*t ! John (JKW)


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