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PAVA Spray For Prison Officers
October 23, 2017

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 685
PAVA Spray For Prison Officers

October 23, 2017

Hull Prison is 30 minutes or so from where we live. It accomodates mainly short term prisoners and those on remand. Prisoners there are very upset that their prison officers are to be part of a nation wide trial to 'arm' them with PAVA spray. The trial is in reaction to an increase in prisoner on prisoner violence and attacks on officers. Prison Officers have been campaigning for some time apparently  for some means of self defence as their numbers dwindle year on year. Hull prisoners don't like the idea at all, nor do many of the 'bleeding hearts brigade'. It is claimed the move will cause even more unrest and violence from prisoners. I read this to mean prisoners are saying if  the Government gives prison officers PAVA spray  they, the prisoners, will create even more violence but if you do what the prisoners say they will just keep the violence at their current levels!! A number of members on this site are retired or serving prison officers, I would be very interested to read their views on the matter.

 

October 24, 2017

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 558
PAVA Spray For Prison Officers

October 24, 2017

In my old jail (HMP Liverpool) a scumbag there was recently sentenced to 11 years 8 months for attempting to strangle a Prison Officer with with torn strips of bed sheet - his "paid liar's" ( barrister's) plea of mitigation was his client was high on "spice" , so that makes it acceptable then ??!! Only the prompt intervention of follow staff members prevented the guy committing outright murder - if the spray ( or Taser) was available such cases would certainly be minimised IMO. With that said, no amount of equipment makes up for the shortfall in staffing levels. What is needed is both the equipment  AND staff on the Landings ; that way control & discipline can be restored, especially if the drugs / phones  being brought in by both visitors and drones can be stopped (again, more staff & detection equipment needed). John (JKW)

October 25, 2017

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
PAVA Spray For Prison Officers

October 25, 2017

Can I ask a question and it might be naive but being a law biding citizen and not a mamby pamby do gooder,and the question is "Why do we put up with this crap" ?????? " from in most cases scum of the earth " ???? Everyday there are case reports from courts all over the land ( and Ireland) of offenders with multiple offences some in the hundreds getting lenient sentences. These people will never be " good citizens " again no matter what happens when inside, they repeat offenders,so if we took some of the meaning from either the Bible or Koran and implemented " an eye for an eye" or thiefs had their hands removed,then in the worst cases dispatched to the cemetery for their crimes you wouldn't get this steady build up of criminals . The other alternative is to have them ( prisoners) in chains 24/7 and solitary confinement,possibly the lesser of the 2 evils,but it would be more protective of the prison staff than giving then "sprays" or arming them , just a thought ?????

October 25, 2017

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 558
PAVA Spray For Prison Officers

October 25, 2017

Sad to say Bob, your well intentioned solutions aint going to happen ! However, jail-time  must be made into a deterrent which it certainly is not these days. Inmates MUST be made to work, & if insufficient places are available in prison workshops, then " labour platoons" should be formed to bring the whole prison estate up to scratch. Enlist former military guys by the thousand, swamp the landings with these and give them the equipment to protect themselves and detect incoming drugs, weapons & mobile phones, and scrap all thoughts & expense at rehabilitation of recividists - that's just a pipe dream of out of touch politicians and tree hugging namby pambys. The ex military staff, with sufficient numbers & training, would soon re establish control & discipline , prevent the colossal damage and cost to our prisons, and provide the deterrent sorely needed to cut down on re offending rates. John (JKW)

October 25, 2017

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
PAVA Spray For Prison Officers

October 25, 2017

John if you remember in Germany back when we served there they had " prisoners " out doing community work,roads ,ditches etc at the weekend,mainly traffic offences but it made an impact on these offenders. When you consider that the USA use there naughty people on chain gangs ,let's get them to give something back to the community instead of watching tv and high on drugs ,work it out of them.

October 26, 2017

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 558
PAVA Spray For Prison Officers

October 26, 2017

Bob, "we" in the UK have a better option - we allow our prisoners loads of free time doing weight training in the gym ( excellent equipment by the way) in order to build their muscles up in order they can assault staff !! John (JKW)

October 26, 2017

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 685
PAVA Spray For Prison Officers

October 26, 2017

We could fairly easily re-establish complete control of our prisons. But it would take money, manpower and the will to forge an unrelenting and uncompromising regime of discipline. None of those commodities will be forthcoming. Assaults in prisons, both on other inmates and on prison officers, is at an all time high because of a lack of the three necessities outlined. That is why your excellent idea will never come to fruition John. We live in an era where the perpetrators of crime have more support than the victims of it. Where too many law makers live in a cocoon that denies them any insight into the real world. A world where  facts matter nothing, where some people cannot comprehend that other people truly can be evil, beyond redemption and that nurturing such people with kindness serves only to make them unafraid of the penalties likely to be paid for their crimes........if they are ever caught. Prisons should never be a dehumanising experience, they should never be degrading, lacking in humanity and basic human values. But equally they should never be places where people are quite happy to go for a time, where it just becomes a minor inconvenience. In my somewhat wilder, younger, days I was a guest at MCTC Colchester for a short spell. We were beasted  from dawn to dusk. Any minor infringement of the rules gained a demerit. Three demerits and it was off to the MO to be certified fit for RD. RD meant a restricted diet of bread and either soup or water (I can't remember which) for three days. Longer RDs were allowed, interspersed with a day of 'normal food' every third day. RDs also meant withdrawal of the two cigarettes a day 'trainees' who smoked were allowed. Bigger infringements incurred solitary AND RDs, no mail, no anything!!  Violence? It just didn't happen. We were too knackered, hungry and desperate to think about it. The occasional madman who tried it was quietly removed to a place of 'safety' and gently chastised. Very, very few soldiers returned to MCTC for a second visit!! I am singularly ashamed of being sent there and, truth be told, had it not been for very delicate Anglo German relationships at the time I wouldn't have been. BUT, conversely, it was a kick up the backside that was long overdue and, apart from debarring me from receipt of a LS&GC, had no lasting adverse consequences. Until prisons revert to being placed where criminals really don't want to go, places where life doesn't just carry on as before except for the loss of freedom, they will continue to be held in derision by those who we need to fear being sent there!!

October 26, 2017

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
PAVA Spray For Prison Officers

October 26, 2017

David your on the button ,cost and deterrence,going to prison should frighten the life out of perpetrators not allow them to have a holiday on the state while the victim of crime gets feck all . As I posted earlier they should be in chains and given hard labour as of old .


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