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The EU In Or Out??
December 19, 2015

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 683
The EU In Or Out??

December 19, 2015

The membership of this forum undoubtedly comprises an excellent cross section of informed and intelligent opinions. I suspect there may well also be a divergence of political affinities and an even broader array of views on our continued membership of the EU....or not!! So, let's see if we can't stimulate a few voices to share their thoughts on this matter.

Now that we know the likelihood of Cameron effecting any substantial changes to the Treaty is likely to be zero. Now that we know the eastern bloc of the EU members (surprise, surprise) will never agree to the proposed 4 year benefits qualifying period, that the free movement of immigrants will continue to be championed by Merkel and she alone has the power to veto any of our proposals, how should we vote? Do we know enough about the pros and cons of leaving or staying. Has Cameron been sold a pup as we all guessed he would be and is he banking on a Yes to continued membership anyway at the referendum, whenever it is held?

I would love to see a straw poll of site members' opinions on this important and interesting topic. Let's see if we can't get a few views together, who knows they might be indicative of the outcome of the Referendum!! Stranger things have happened. If you don't want to actually comment a simple In or Out would still be helpful!

My parting shot is to wish  everyone and their families a peaceful and happy Christmas and a joyful new year. I hope you  all enjoy good health and good fortunes throughout 2016 and beyond. Best wishes as ever. David F.

December 19, 2015

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 555
The EU In Or Out??

December 19, 2015

Having listened to various (usually biased) debate on the "In /Out" subject, I have reached a personal opinion that I will vote "OUT", mainly because I feel we are hamstrung by Brussels (Merkel & the Frogs in particular), and the massive costs we incur by being a Member cannot be justified through the few benefits we do receive. To get ALL 28 nations to agree on any subject is practically an impossibility, the huge salaries / expenses paid to MEP's is exorbitant (& for what ?), and the ever-increasing power /influence exerted by Brussels (Merkel !) continues to erode our own governance to the extent we cannot seem to pass any laws here without consultation with Brussels (Merkel!), and the recent (continuing) immigration problem highlights our brittle Border policy even further. With Turkey having now been almost guaranteed entry into the EU , and having the highest Muslim population this side of  Mecca, guess where many Turks will want to come ? The mind boggles at the thought. Trade-wise : many predict massive UK job losses if we opt out - I don't think so, trade will still continue and we'll have more control over our imports & taxes levied. Job losses will occur, but only to those MEP's desperate for us to stay Members in order to keep their fat salaries/expenses intact ! European Court of Human Rights - originally well meant, but unfortunately now a charter for legalised abuse of the system, particularly by prisoners. Why waste so much time, effort & money on promoting the rights of convicts to vote !?! We in the UK elect our Government to govern our country, not to ask permission of Brussels to do so. There is too much interference from the EU, and so I for one, vote "OUT" !! John (JKW)        

December 19, 2015

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
The EU In Or Out??

December 19, 2015

John, I wholeheartedly agree. We get nothing from the other EU partners (????) apart from "Non, Non, Non" in all languages from our "fellow members", and since we managed VERY well for almost 1000 years without being tied to a European Government, I have always said NO to our membership, and will do so if and when Camwimp can say yes to a referendum. Given a few more days, Camwimp will say that he never wanted a referendum in the first place. He changes his mind 1000 times faster than a Chameleon changes its spots....or a Froggie changes his bit of crumpet..... Methinks, too, that his days are numbered nearer zero than two!! All mouth and a soiled nappy.

December 20, 2015

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1203
The EU In Or Out??

December 20, 2015

There I was finished packing ,putting the house in order thinking that it's all that would be posted on the site would Christmas and New Year greeting ,then David yes Mr F post his thoughts on the In/Out referendum that now looks like it's going on in 16 . When I voted on the original question on the "common market" in 1975 on Soltau it was about trade between us and the 6 ,then the UK needed trading partners in Europe as we were losing our commonwealth customers . Then as we know the D/mark was 8 or 9 to the pound ,since then we've had the demise of communism the uni of Germany and then the Euro ( only imposed cos the Germans could sell their goods at a constant cost ) ,as Tom &John posted its a German take over , I've thought on that yes we are going to a more federal EU this not what the U K needs (some of our laws go back to the 12/13 century ) we don't need extra ones from non elected commissioners in Brussels .Yes the health and safety laws on every day life but we would done that ourselves ,the free movement of workers( note ) workers to other countries has been going on since time started ,but mass migration from poorer countries has to be controlled by the receiving country ,now that quote 1 million have arrived in the Federal Republic of Germany and god knows how many in the southern countries ( Greece,Italy etc) this will cause big problems for us all if the status quo about movement between states , now I've mentioned cheap labour But I never mentioned religion and to guys who live in the North West were a Mosque is being built every couple of months ,completely changing the English/British population and way of life . To have control from the centre with no accountability to the British people the Federalised EU is not for the oldest democracy in the world were we want to have our say on how we live our life's .I started by saying we joined the club for trade not frustrating controls from the centre since the Euro was taken up at the turn of the century , so do we or do we not want to go with the current policies coming out of Brussels or change them from inside or go it alone . The original idea of the common market was right for its time ,but we've like t he rest of the world has moved on ,let's see what Prime Minister can do ,as in my eyes / thoughts Europe needs us more than we need them .

December 20, 2015

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 683
The EU In Or Out??

December 20, 2015

I confess I have completely changed my mind and am now firmly in the "time to leave" category. The EU is fast tracking to becoming Merkel's dreamed of Federalist Union. A political leviathan of monstrous  bureaucacy mired in fatcat mentality and small mindness. We will lose any last vestige of  control over immigration and we will pay £billions for other countries economic stupidity. The EU exports hugely more trade wares to us than we do to them, they NEED us to continue to trade with them. We CAN survive better alone,  free of the unendlessly  mindblowing and ridiculous  diktats of some Belgian prat pontificating about how we should conform to what they say and do. Merkel and France (whoever happens to be the Homme de Francais of the moment) will decide what, when and where happens in the EU we are just also rans. Cameron has been humiliated and treated with contempt even though he has severely watered down his demands. In a way I can understand the ethos of play by the rules or leave. We should do exactly that LEAVE.

December 20, 2015

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 5
The EU In Or Out??

December 20, 2015

OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SOONER THE BETTER

December 21, 2015

Joined: May 15, 2014
Posts: 22
The EU In Or Out??

December 21, 2015

OUT! OUT! OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ASAP

December 22, 2015

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 23
The EU In Or Out??

December 22, 2015

Without any doubt OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

December 22, 2015

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 23
The EU In Or Out??

December 22, 2015

They couldn't beat us on the battlefield so the only other course of action is to remove the right to rule ourselves. When Merkel let in the whole of Africa I said that the next thing will be a border force to control the Shengin area and they have already stated that countries will not be allowed to refuse, also, Germany has said they will take anyone to court who refuses to take their allocation, the next step will be the issuing of documents to the million she let in, they will be sent to every country in the EU, no one will be able to refuse as they will be citizens of the EU and allowed free travel, the 5000 in Calais will be issued with with documents and given free travel to the UK, all further influx will be given the same rights result, Merkel becomes even stronger in the EU.

December 22, 2015

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1203
The EU In Or Out??

December 22, 2015

Other thoughts on the EU living as I do in a Eurozone country that's in so much debt having to export its young men and woman to find work abroad ,you then have the likes of Greece and Spain that are completely bankrupt all so we could have a federal Europe currency controlled from Frankfurt /Berlin . great for the Fatherland but a booby trap for the smaller nations . Yes we need to trade ,after all what some famous enough guy in history say about Britain "a nation of shop keepers "!!but now we have 60+million people who want a Beemer/Merc  or a Renault trade will have to go both ways on our Exit , there I am running down the country were half my kids and grandchildren were born and I was married (Detmold 66) and I'm flying to for Xmas ,but they weren't unified getting ideas about ruling Europe again as they did last century ......you'll notice I never mentioned the war......and I don't trust the German politicians .......losing family members to both wars

January 25, 2016

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1203
The EU In Or Out??

January 25, 2016

Now sitting on a lovely beach with the South Arabian Sea lapping the sand watching the local fishermen going about their daily tasks fishing their local waters . Now your asking where he going with this on the In/Out discussion on the EU ,well the answer is simple hold your hands if you ever went to for example Fleetwood,Grimsby,Great Yarmouth even the Scottish fishing ports back when you were a kid and marvelled at the family run fishing boats tied up or unloading the daily catch ,well go them places now and there's nowt ,but we still eat fish,crabs etc .Who is doing the fishing in British waters ,cos it ain't Brits ,most proberly Spanish ,French factory ships ,and ignoring the quotas imposed as they take their catch back to their home country .I know that if we are out these British boats/@crews will have exclusive right to fish our waters again thus bringing much needed jobs back to our shores ,and maybe cheaper fish too .l know Ireland reckons they lost 20million euros worth in jobs etc when they joined the Common Fisheries back when they joined the Common Market ,so what would the cost to the British fishing industry be a multiple of that at least .....but will Cameron give the people a choice ???????????????????????

January 25, 2016

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 555
The EU In Or Out??

January 25, 2016

Bob, Nice to hear from you whilst you're sitting beach side on the South Arabian Sea - it's very mild here too (considering) !!! Despite David Cameron's attempts to re org the EU, the migration problem has deffo focused the citizens of the UK onto the In/Out Referendum, with almost everyone I speak to wanting "OUT". We want to rule/govern our own democratically elected country again, upholding all the values and controls we fought so hard for throughout history, and to live again without the interference from Brussels, who are led by Angela Merkel's bidding. She's got enough domestic problems without trying to "rule" us too ! I see DC has now stated that he's prepared to put back the Referendum "until '17 if need be" to ensure the negotiations have not been rushed ! The reason is, more like, the fact he KNOWS  the Electorate would certainly vote "OUT" if it was held this year. There are certainly some benefits of being a Member of the EU, but in my opinion, these days  the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages, therefore I am definitely in the "OUT" camp now. John (JKW)

January 26, 2016

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
The EU In Or Out??

January 26, 2016

No matter how much our so called PM and his cohorts delay the decision until, (he hopes), our citizens see the light, and he gets the decision HE wants (though the electorate do NOT) Cameron will continue babbling on, getting nowhere, and losing ANY support he may have had previously. I rejoice in the probability of our electorate demanding that we get the right of voting "OUT and NOW" not accepting further delays. WE will not change our minds, so why is he hanging on to his nightmare -oops- target, which nobody else wants? Get out now, before the hordes of refugees (???) nay paracites, get out of total control. Our wartime leader Churchill would have said "NO" before anyone  had stopped asking the question in the first place.... Does he not realise that his efforts will get the same results as if the English FA had put 5year old football players of Bolton Wanderers 5th team up against the first team of Real Madrid, including Messi. Not only white washed, but totally distraught.....

January 27, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 683
The EU In Or Out??

January 27, 2016

The First Ministers of Scotland, Wales and NI all seem very pro EU membership continuing albeit I am not sure Ms Sturgeon doesn't secretly hope the vote goes against staying in to provide her with an excuse for another Independence Referendum. Cameron and most of the Tory big hitters will campaign for continued membership without a doubt, it remains to be seen if Teresa May sticks her head above the parapet and leads the "Out" campaign. I fear the vast majority of the referendum campaign money and support will  go to the Cameron backed cohort. I was always an ardent supporter of our membership of the EU, despite the many ridiculous edicts it produced and the gravy train it both founded and actively encouraged. It seemed the advantages outweighed the disadvantages. But then the rise of Federalism began and more and more centralization crept in along. with really stupid edicts on immigration et al.  Merkel's  disasterous open door immigration policy will  destroy the Schengen agreement which, in turn, will herald the start of the demise of the EU itself as member countries turn more and more on each other, as Greece is now doing. The fact is, we IMPORT far more from the EU than we EXPORT. We have far bigger and more lucrative export deals with several other countries outside of the EU. Not being a member of the EU WILL cost us money and when trading with EU countries we WILL still be bound by their rules and edicts. BUT, the cost of getting a "licence" to trade with EU countries will be hugely less than our current annual contribution to their coffers AND we will only be bound by EU rules for the trade deals we do with their members, no more ridiculous edicts and erosion of our sovereignty. We can and will survive and grow outwith of the EU. It is a behemoth that has had its day. The EU is fast becoming even more dominated by Germany which has far and away the greatest and best export market within its membership ergo the most reasons for growing and federalizing the EU. We need to leave and get back to running our own country, free of interference from washed up, out of touch and stupid  politicians from Brussels.  I will be voting OUT!!

January 27, 2016

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
The EU In Or Out??

January 27, 2016

"Here Here", and me for out too. Get our borders back from the control of the EU now,,,,, We will be better off outside this EU useless comedy team before it is too late to leave. And Cameron should stop putting barriers up against UK leaving. He has never had the plot, full stop.

February 4, 2016

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 24
The EU In Or Out??

February 4, 2016

Hearing & reading the the news regarding 'Call me Daves' negotiations to keep us in the E.U. I don't think I'll bother, & as they say on Dragons Den I'm OUT.


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