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Aleppo
December 13, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 685
Aleppo

December 13, 2016

So, having just watched the news it seems Aleppo is almost entirely back in Syrian Government hands, apart from a few isolated pockets of resistance. News reports regale us with horrific pictures of atrocities committed by both sides with just enough emphasis on the Govt Forces' alleged atrocities to make sure we know where to place our sympathy. Then the inevitable question; "did we do enough to help, did we, as a country, play the part we should have played?" The answer, to my mind, is simple. We should never have become embroiled in any of it, not in Syria, Libya, Tunisia, Afghanistan, Iraq, none of it. The intervention of the west in these tribal, quasi Islamic sectarian  wars did nothing, absolutely nothing to help anyone. I watched the pictures of the innocent masses of civilians caught up in the Aleppo battles, the children, the babies, the women, families displaced, frightened half to death, staving, bereft of medical care, bereft of the most basic of humanitarian care. And for what? A war to displace one despot with a series of other despots. A war whose origins and intracies we westerners can never hope to fully comprehend. I then listened to the voices of baying MPs  decrying their own inactivity in this atrocity of a war, I listened to Osborne berating Parliament for not intervening when he and Cameron asked them to back their interventionist plans. And it struck me how pathetically inept,how atrociously stupid, those we elected to lead us really are. No lessons learnt from the previous disasters in Iraq and Afghanistan, no acknowledgement of the fact that western intervention has only ever made things worse than they ever were, no recognition of the unsavoury truth that it is only ever the innocent who suffer. I have said since day 1 of the Syrian war that Assad would not be usurped, that Russia would not allow it, that he had too much support. I also said that Obama would never have the backing  or the personal inclination for the US to intervene so we should all stay out of it and hope for a speedy conclusion. When will we ever learn that sometimes, just sometimes,better the devil you know, the alternative in most Islamic countries is infinitely worse.

 

 

December 13, 2016

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
Aleppo

December 13, 2016

True, from word one to the LAST word. Tom

December 14, 2016

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
Aleppo

December 14, 2016

Further to your thoughts David/Tom I want put my tuppence into the ring . This siege has been going on for 4 years or more ,looking at the pictures it's Berlin 1945 but in concrete with most building damaged or rubble . We definitely don't need the pictures of our people coming home in flag draped coffins (even if we had enough armed forces to deploy there) yes that ex leader of Labour did us a favour mmmm Milliband or something . Ok Riley get to the point , BBC have this young bearded man claiming he's in Aleppo with the latest video on the siege ( more children being recovered ,more dead bodies ) he's saying that the government troops have isolated the men taken and executed them mmmm then they are allowing refugees to be bused out . This young bearded reporter is very well informed or is he , with modern technology as is me thinks he if he was in Aleppo target bombing . So these reports have to taken with a pinch of salt , can anyone tell me cos I'm not understanding the  morels people in a 4 year  siege having little food/water under constant bombing having children ,why have kids if you can't feed 'em or protect 'em ,or is it that they are just props for the war pictures ??????? Whatever, I'm just content in the knowledge that the only Brits there are Muslim and not our Armed Forces and they are losing .

December 14, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 685
Aleppo

December 14, 2016

I have watched the reports given by civilians trapped in Aleppo, I don't think they are staged it's just the result of modern social media advances. I have absolute sympathy with the residents of that hell hole, I can't begin to imagine the fear, the terror, the deprivation they are subjected to from the constant bombings, the gas attacks, the sarin bombs et al. But; the discussions in Parliament yesterday centred on our failure to destroy Assad's airforce on the ground before he was able to start the bombings. No mention of the Russian airforce and how the decimation of the Syrian airforce would just have meant even more Russian planes. It is never a simple either or scenario, subjective analysis's do no good to anyone. The fact is U.K. intervention would have risked a major confrontation with Russia. I am sure that our inaction motivated Obama to act in a similar vein but so what!!  Not only that think of the complexity of the situation, the rebels fighting Assad were heavily supported and later outnumbered and overrun by ISIS forces who we were also bombing, so Assad was bombing the rebels per se, including ISIS, we were bombing, allegedly, just ISIS forces, the Russians were also allegedly bombing ISIS but in reality were blanket bombing everyone and everything, what a hotchpot, what a mess. The whole Syrian crisis is a blot on humanity, it is a disgraceful reflection of mankind's inability to live in harmony with one another. But; it is not our war, we have never left a single arab or Muslim country in a better situation than it was before we intervened militarily. That is because we have never grasped the idea that democracy is a western ideology that isn't embraced by all societies, that different races and religions have different values and aspirations. We have never had the foresight to think about the lack of infrastructure left AFTER we have "liberated" these countries, never thought about the aftermath, the lack of command and control once these regimes are overthrown and the inter tribal, the sectarian feuds, combine to  prevent any return to normality.  I have no qualms whatsoever at our failure to help usurp Assad, quite the contrary, I think he is the least worst option for Syria. Anything we DO agree to should be centred on ending the war, accepting Assad is in control for the foreseeable future and to try to get him to be magnanimous in victory to the civilian population. Our days of being respected as a global peacekeeper are gone, we need to raise the drawbridge, withdraw all foreign aid, leave the Middle East to solve its own problems, strengthen our borders and begin to look after our own. A controversial opinion I know!!!  

December 15, 2016

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
Aleppo

December 15, 2016

My very thoughts now Brexit as our man in Brussels says could 10 years ,no wonder with him in charge Cameron got nothing of value !!!!!

December 15, 2016

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
Aleppo

December 15, 2016

Why do we not just say to the rubbish EU "on yer bikes, EU, we are out NOW" ???. And if they want a war, we are too good for them, we always beat them anyway..... We should just say "We are leaving NOW, not in a few decades" now that they are threatening to keep us locked in to the EU for years to come. Just walk away now, and "Bollocks to them all". I am ready for a fight, I still have my catapult.......Their message today is "Ten more years of the EU at least", so let us now say "WE are off NOW, do your damnedest". I am fed up of the lot of them PARACITES that they are. BUT we have no political group ready to do what we the population is demanding, "Action exit stage right, NOW". If we left now, we could help the NHS recover from its present state, we could build up our Armed Forces to the proper levels in all arms, and be FREE once more. Maggie must do it, and NOW.


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