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Diesel Cars
May 13, 2017

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 685
Diesel Cars

May 13, 2017

A week or so ago I was reading loads of stuff about what may or may not end up in the new legislation about diesel vehicles. Rationally, I thought, 34% of all private cars are diesel, most lorries are. Almost every SUV on the market is. The older pre DPF vehicles will likely be the first to suffer my logic tells me. No need to panic yet. But what about as time goes on and people start ditching diesels? The second hand market is driven to a lesser or greater degree by demand, diesels will likely become less attractive as time goes on I thought. My Beamer cost an arm and a leg. Do I sit it out, it's only two years old or do I get rid before the storm starts and it really loses more than you would expect. Surely the sheer number of car manufactures who produce these cars will find a solution? Umm not so very sure. Then I pick up the Daily Telegraph and read an article that says the flood of 'diesel ditchers' has already begun with a disproportionate number of these vehicles already hitting the used car market. So I decide I'll just start having a wee look, a tentative, first appraisal. I love my X5 M3 Sport, it won't be going anywhere in a hurry. We will  have a drive out and see how the land lies, visit a couple of showrooms. We want an SUV, we have driven SUVs for many years, we both like the elevated driving position, the space inside etc. No point in going to BMW, where we would likely get the best trade in price, IF we decided to change, they don't make a petrol SUV. We  narrow our initial search down to Jaguar, Mercedes and Audi as likely candidates, they all produce petrol engined SUVs,  SHOULD we decide to change, but no hurry, none of my usual spur of the moment purchases, which is how the Beamer landed in our garage, this time it will be careful deliberation, wait it out a bit, see how things pan out. Mercedes is the first showroom we see so in we go. They only produce petrol SUVs in their AMG range so we are unlikey to be buying there. One long test drive and a couple of hours later we leave having bought a new GLC AMG 43. We DID get a really good deal but what happened to my resolve, my "this time we'll try all of the possible choices out and then deliberate for at least two weeks." Well, we decided at our time of life we should do exactly as we choose. The morning we drove to look at  cars Veronika's ISA matured, it was on a fixed 1.75 % interest rate over its two year lifespan. The best rates we could get for another two years were all less than 1%, some banks offering 0.35%, many even less than that. There is simply no point in saving loads of money in the bank. So we decided to start spending it and enjoying it. Diana's death last November was a timely reminder of life's uncertainties. So, in a couple of weeks the Beamer will be gone and a Mercedes Benz will repose in our garage. As an aside the Mercedes retail manager told me they had already noticed a surge in diesel ditching. BUT for all that I have this feeling that I can't quite shake off that we have jumped too soon. Time will tell, too late now! Interested to hear others views.

 

 

May 14, 2017

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
Diesel Cars

May 14, 2017

David Im pleased you have cash to afford a new diesel,maybe the U.K. price differences is not as great as Ireland,my new 17 Hyundai is 2.5 k cheaper than the diesel version and the running costs are not that much different. My son living in Germany and is a diesel man,he has a new Audi A3 for family run around but his X5 is now going to be an Audi A6 estate as he found the Beemer to big for city centre driving/parking . The diesel/Benz engines on modern cars are much cleaner than models we had back in the 60/70's and of course more economical,the only problem as I see it is there tooooo many cars/trucks on our roads . Do we need 2/3 cars in this day of cheap ( bus pass) public travel and Ryanair, thinking back in the day of my youth war surplus motorcycle and sidecar were the family transportation and motorways were a thing of the future. The experts keep coming up with new problems that can cause a problem with us humans ,the latest in the press here in Ireland is fizzy water ( yep fizzy water) causes obesity,talk about the mamby pamby state . So one minute diesel is a fantastic fuel for the population now it's a killer ,I think the guy who developed the wheel is responsible???

May 14, 2017

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 685
Diesel Cars

May 14, 2017

Bob, I have sold my diesel X5, I have bought a new petrol engined car. As it happens in the Mercedes SUV range  the diesels, which account for 95% of the available models, are cheaper because the petrol versions are only available in the AMG range ( which is their premium performance range). Normally diesel models ARE more expensive than petrol ones here I think. I can sympathise with your son's issue apropos parking his X5 in town. We had the same problem, it is a big car and tight car parking spaces don't help at all. We also have two cars, the Beemer (it goes on the 22nd of this month) and a Kia Picanto. We use the Picanto around town and for most of our short journeys because it is petrol engined and the Beemer is diesel, diesels aren't best for short, stop/start journeys as you know. I expect we will get rid of the Picanto once the Mercedes arrives as we don't need two petrol vehicles. Like I said I may well have jumped before being pushed in ditching the Beemer, it is a fantastic car but like all big expensive cars its depreciation is high so I thought if the added factor of diesel penalties come into the equation who knows what will happen to its used car price. Too late now anyway lol! The fizzy water thing hit the press here as well. The other day I read exercise makes people fat!! Yes you read that correctly! Apparently some people exercise and then think they can eat what they want because they vastly over estimate how many calories they have actually burnt off. I mean NOBODY knows that diet and exercise combined is the most effective way to lose weight, do they??

May 14, 2017

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 558
Diesel Cars

May 14, 2017

One way to overcome the depreciation / diesel ditching problem is to go down the PCH (Private Contract Hire) route, whereby you typically pay a nominal sum upfront (ie, 3 x monthly payments) and then a monthly fee to lease the car over your required contract term, usually 2,3 or 4 years "ownership". At the end of your contract, you simply hand the car back and get a new one on similar terms if you want one (any make you choose).  Pro's of such a scheme = a brand new car every couple of years, no trade-in or negotiating hassle at the contract's end, a car that is under warranty throughout, AA/RAC full cover included, no MOT or road tax to pay, very unlikely you'll need to fork out for replacement tyres, exhausts, brakes, battery etc,  much less cash needed for a deposit and lower monthly repayments than a PCP (Private Contract Purchase) deal. It also means the manufacturer / leasing company bear the brunt of any depreciation because any drop in value is of no concern to you, your payments are fixed & constant. Cons = You'll never own the car (although if you REALLY wanted to buy it at the end, it can be arranged), you need to look after it as if it was your own to avoid incurring penalties for damage although decent company's abide by the "Fair Wear & Tear" policy, which is fairly tolerant of the odd scrape / wheel kerbing, and of course you'll need to keep paying for as long as you want a car ! If you're lucky enough to be able to pay cash for a car, this method means you keep your money gathering (admittedly low) interest, but hey, it's better than nothing ! Congrats on the new car Dave - I'd personally have waited a wee while, but I'm glad you chose the Mercedes over the Audi - their reputation for reliability these days is terrible, not like when I had my Audi 80 (metallic green, remember it ?), a car I bought in BAOR in '80 for £3,500 & kept for 14 years before selling it for £1000, depreciation of approx. £178 per year ! These days, if buying a car, it loses a couple of grand the minute it's driven off the forecourt ! John (JKW)  

May 14, 2017

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 685
Diesel Cars

May 14, 2017

I well remember your (very shiny) Audi 80 John and the care you lavished on it so I'm not at all surprised you still got £1k for it after all those years. I can't remember the last time I kept a car past its three year point, can't remember having to have an MOT.  The PCH option you speak of is no bad thing if you don't have an expensive car you need to ditch in part exchange. I briefly flirted with the idea but selling my Beemer to one of the 'webuyanycar.com' type companies elicited such ridiculous cash price offers that I elected not to do so. We got the 'Glasses' guide price from Mercedes plus a reasonable discount on the new car. Our 'intention' is to make this the last big, luxury make and model car we buy and to drive it long enough for its depreciation t make it viable to downgrade. So I will make an acquaintance with the vagaries of the MOT system in the next 3 years. You are also absolutely correct about cars losing £thousands as soon as they leave the forecourts. It's a mug's game really but cars have always been my weakness, I was reminded of my yellow Matra Simca Bagheera a couple of weeks ago when Tom Baker (ex RAPC Sgt in Osnabruek) messaged me fro France where he now lives.  

May 15, 2017

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
Diesel Cars

May 15, 2017

David at heart we are all boy racers. Having a newish car on the drive ,considering that over my life we have had 8 new cars and a camper ,6 were tax free from B A O R days the other dozen or so were upto me retiring. The thing now here in Ireland is buying a new car on a lease ,allowing a new car/ van every 2 years ,but as you say that cost a lot of money down the drain. The dealers/ manufacturers are offering upto 5k on scrappage and zero % financing,thus getting us down to the forecourt,will we ever learn ???????

May 15, 2017

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 685
Diesel Cars

May 15, 2017

Bob, just read again today that the market is already experiencing a major increase in diesel ditching and an expected 15% decrease on top of normal depreciation can be anticipated on diesel used cars. Admittedly the first to feel the pinch will likely be the older diesels but it's a lottery whichever way you go. As for the boy racer bit, I really try to stick to speed limits, on the motorway I set cruise to 76 and sit back and enjoy the journey. Living in rural Lincolnshire it is handy having that extra bit of power under your seat when overtaking. My Beemer does 0-62 in 6.7 seconds which is fast believe me, especially for a big, heavy SUV. The new Mercedes AMG on order does 0-62 in 4.7 seconds, now that IS boy racer stuff!!  And you are right about us being enticed by all the car deals on offer but as I have previously said, savings attract hardly any interest so, apart from holidays and enjoying life, what else do we spend our hard earned dosh on.  

May 16, 2017

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 558
Diesel Cars

May 16, 2017

Despite the palaver the Government agencies (& others) are spouting as regards diesels, it should be remembered  that they provide , on average, a third better fuel consumption, better torque and a longer life than petrol powered engines. Better fuel consumption equals less production needed of the precious oil reserves. The amount of noxious fumes a modern diesel car produces is minimal compared to that of rail, heavy transport / buses, taxis & aviation sources. Electric power ? It requires the energy provided by mostly fossil fuel power stations, themselves spewing loads of noxious fumes, and the real fear of running out of electricity before reaching the destination - the reliability & availability of charging stations is an additional problem. Hydrogen power?  A possible solution, but the explosion risk in the event of an accident is high on most potential users thoughts, plus it's availability, the  same with LPG. Hybrid ? A combination of petrol & elec power is another possibility, but I've tried it in a Honda and wasn't impressed over a 2 year period, plus it's usually accompanied by a CVT gearbox (if auto required), and my experience (a £10,000 repair bill) puts me right off them ! So, it's STILL diesel for me, and with using a PCH deal I've no reason to fear the possible "extra" depreciation factor. Speeding ? I bought a camera detector some years ago, & whilst "normally" abiding by sensible limits, where safe I have been known (?!) to exceed them "slightly" - the detector has saved my bacon (& licence) numerous times ! With all that said above about diesel, I'd be VERY happy to ditch it if someone gave me a Tesla !! John (JKW)

May 16, 2017

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
Diesel Cars

May 16, 2017

Just to put emissions into context,it seams cows/cattle produce about 25% of all " killer gasses " through farting . Yes the fart of cows is a killer mmmmmm ,next we won't be allowed to drink milk or have steak , do we actually believe these " professors " ?? As in the past some of these decisions were financed by business who had a different product,MMR jab as one example.

May 17, 2017

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 685
Diesel Cars

May 17, 2017

I can't top 'cow farts' being a killer of mankind so I guess this thread has run its course. It WAS just waiting for a succinct, intellectual ending and Bob Riley stepped up to the mark and provided it. Good on 'yer' Bob, "methane maketh man" as they say in ..........wherever AND it's true!!!

June 29, 2017

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 558
Diesel Cars

June 29, 2017

According to the MD of JLR, and the Fair Fuel UK group, diesel cars are being wrongly blamed for excessive NOx pollution by opportunistic politicians and environmentalists, with London Mayor Sadiq Khan coming in for personal criticism in their latest report. It appears that the latest Euro6 compliant diesel cars are being wrongly blamed for the pollution in London - Emissions Analytics and the stats from the London Assembly Environment Committee concur that diesel cars emit LESS NOx (11%) than gas central heating systems (16%), taxis ,trucks and buses (16% each), even log burning stoves, all of which are largely ignored as polluters. It seems the fightback by car manufacturers & campaigners to repair the damage to the  reputation of diesel cars caused by the VW scandal is on - trouble is, Khan finds it easier to tax/charge diesel cars than households with central heating or log burners ! John (JKW)

July 2, 2017

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
Diesel Cars

July 2, 2017

Nothing changed there then!!!!!

July 7, 2017

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
Diesel Cars

July 7, 2017

2040 no more internal combustion engines in France , Volvo no more diesel/petrol cars 2019 . Can I ask what has the car/ motor industry done ??? Electric cars will never be popular in the USA because of the distances involved,even countries the size of Germany are going to be push. Why ?? well unless battery life/ charges can increase in range and very short charging time who's going to drive across the USA or Europe stopping every couple of hours to charge multiple times ,that's going to put paid to fly drive holidays. Anyway by the time all  this  happens ( if it does) I'll be in a wheelchair.

July 7, 2017

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 558
Diesel Cars

July 7, 2017

Good point Bob - will that be an ELECTRIC wheelchair then !? Pure electric cars for me are a no-no, range anxiety would always be a problem. A hybrid ( petrol & electric combo) is a possibility, but usually accompanied by a CVT gearbox which, from personal experience, I found to be rubbish. John (JKW)

July 8, 2017

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
Diesel Cars

July 8, 2017

John Dublin is 200+ks away from where I live ,so if I want the ferry or fly from the electric ( wheelchair) cars range is at its max . As you say the cvt gearbox is a pain ,just wondering will motor bikes and sidecars be still Benz mmmmm a bit drafty wind in hair and all that stuff . One thing though the current cost of an electric car is twice or three times a cheap Benz one ,you might need a mortgage to run a car ???????

July 11, 2017

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
Diesel Cars

July 11, 2017

No , Saudi Arabia and its cousins therein will be worried by this news, they will no doubt have a big meeting to save their major source of income, and the west will worry about lack of military sales to the Saudi regime if they all go broke overnight.... Mind you, if we all need to use mini nuclear engines, we will all end up a sickly yellow with no known cure... OMG I feel a disaster round the corner..... or the anti fracking lobby changing their minds when fracking becomes the only source of fuel for all sorts of vehicles, heating etc... Could be interesting in the least!!!!!!


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