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Hiding the cash
April 5, 2016

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
Hiding the cash

April 5, 2016

Wel well well, even the filthy rich of UK cannot stop themselves hiding their filthy loot from our taxman!!! Politicians, company chairpersons, MP's, film stars, the lot. At times like this, it proves the old addage: you got a lot of it, you hide it from the ordinary people of the world. How many of these dodgy hiders of their wealth will now appear in court???. None of them, too high, mighty and greedy. Oh the shame. But none of them will do the right thing by all accounts .. pay the taxes they owe, then fall on sword. They are good at lecturing we normal people, but fail to accept that the LAW is for them, too. Even the family of our Prime Minister appear to have been involved, together with many other rich families who think themselves above the law. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.....

April 6, 2016

Joined: July 15, 2014
Posts: 51
Hiding the cash

April 6, 2016

Tom,   The reality is they probably haven't broken the law but what they have done isn't morally correct. If I was mega rich would I try to pay as little tax as I could legally get away with, the answer is probably yes.  I do however take a very different view to those in public office who don't pay their fair share of taxes given these are the very people who tell us "we are all in this together". The poor mugs like ourselves who have no control over how much tax is taken from us at source just have to get on with it. I am facing a substantial increase in Income Tax and NI contributions from this month onwards thanks to what they call 'fiscal drift' the combination of my salary and my 'unearned' army pension (that is what it is referred to on my tax code notification) has tipped me into the higher earners tax bracket. Thanks to Wee Nicola I haven't now got the hope of only being in that bracket for one year. My good lady will rightly benefit from the Living Wage increase but her hard earned reward and contribution to our joint 'pot' will be totally written off, and more, by my increased deductions. Still we sleep well at night knowing "we are all in this together" Aye bloody right we are!!!!!!!! the difference is some are travelling first class and the rest of us are in steerage.   Wee Frankie

April 7, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 687
Hiding the cash

April 7, 2016

After my initial anger at this latest revelation had subsided I took stock of matters. I am clear that the rich mainly get richer because they have, inter alia, resources at their disposal that allows them to hold onto more of their money, in short they have access to tax avoidance schemes that are inaccessible to the hoi polloi .....namely us. BUT; on reflection I am also sure that Cameron (of who I am no great fan) ; 1)has done more to curb the tax avoidance schemes of the rich and the global companies than Labour ever did. 2)has no personal conflicts of integrity regarding his own financial issues, it would be far too easy to disprove his assertions to the contrary and Labour would have exposed them by now had that been the case. 3) he should not be held accountable for his father's business dealing s and we should not forget in the decade his father invested overseas no one frowned upon people doing so, it was an accepted fact of life. I am equally sure that 13 years of Labour did the square root of nothing to curb the tax avoidance schemes they now delight in highlighting, just as their refusal to put in place more stringent banking safeguards helped fuel the last fiscal disaster we all faced. Frankie makes a fair and valid point apropos who wouldn't pay less tax if the LEGAL opportunity presented itself to them. As a 40% tax payer I certainly would. In my later years of employment I was paying, on average, £26k pa in income tax and I openly confess I sought ways of mitigating that amount, with only limited success because I "didn't earn enough to make it worth while at the time". It was only later that some people in my (then) position hit on the idea of having their salaries paid into holding companies where the lower corporation tax was payable rather than the standard income tax levels. It isn't JUST the rich and famous who do this nowadays, many middle income people take steps to minimize their tax responsibilities as best they can. What we need is more decisive Government action to close ALL the loopholes. loopholes that DO unfortunately only help the better off in society and the filthy rich companies such loopholes must therefore by definition be unfair. Unfair but legal and not accessible to all.......a recipe for understandable public and media outrage. We need a level playing field a playing field upon which everyone is treated equally and fairly.

April 7, 2016

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 199
Hiding the cash

April 7, 2016

David do you think for one moment that any government in the world will close all the loopholes that help the extremely rich, without opening more loopholes for them to carry on doing what they are doing in a slightly different way, No there is is only one way to do it. regardless of what you earn, you will pay say a flat rate of income tax of  20% and that is all. No way of cutting that, whatever, no laying off this against that, or any other thing that accountants dream up, off shore etc etc, nobody but nobody pays anything less. Look at the lists that are coming out and the positions of those that are on it, it is now that a whistle blower, via a German newspaper shows just how many of the so called people in power are involved in these offshore accounts etc, one would expect people like PUTIN and pals within the old Eastern bloc to be involved, along with dictators of all persuasions dead and alive, but not call me Dave we are all in this together, along with, I think I will just walk out of this interview George Osborne when asked if he was involved in off shore accounts. I must pick up on a thing that Wee Frankie said, ie my unearned army pension I think if you have a pension from the Army you have bloody well earned it. I think that we are all in it together was a subconscious thought that the only ones who are all in it together, are those who have it and those who do not. Back on the blood pressure again, food for thought though,1 BANK BAILED OUT £45 billion, aid to various countries with their 0wn space programmes, £3.9 billion pounds to a country that is  not even in the EU to buy steel to be used for 3 warships for the Royal Navy and close to 400  armoured vehicles, this would make losing £1Million pounds a day chickenfeed, enough to keep British Steel going for over 200 years. keep smiling BOB.

April 8, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 687
Hiding the cash

April 8, 2016

Bob; "unearned income" is the official HMRC terminology for pensions, dividends, interest et al it isn't Frankie's terminology. Apropos steel, the US slapped a 240% surcharge on all foreign steel to save their own industry. We "tickled" the Chinese steel imports with what the EU would allow....24% with the result Chinese steel which they sell at a huge Government subsidised loss is still far cheaper than steel we can produce. No global power should ever be without the capability to produce its own steel it is simply a recipe for disaster if the balloon goes up!!

April 8, 2016

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
Hiding the cash

April 8, 2016

Ok so D C has made money in a hedge fund ,if he payed capital gains tax on his profit that's ok,if not we'll he should be find and made to resign ( but we've had all types of politicians or people in power making illegal/ legal money and not declaring,getting caught and nothing)  You guys know at the moment there is a very little return for any monies saved for a rainy day ,over here in Ireland you can invest in government bounds ,either 4 or 10 years , you get a decent return and its "tax free" , now obviously this is for people with a couple of euros not millions like in Panama. Anyone who has paid that tax ( capital gains) will realise that in most cases they have paid tax on the sum before you get paid for your investment, wait till you come to sell you home of 20/30 years with house prices compared to purchase price. The main problem all these people have ,wether it's drugs,little boys,off shore money ,expenses is being caught and the way the media love to have a scoop all over its headlines /tv screens ,as for a lot of us "there for the grace of God "..........don't get caught !!!!!

April 10, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 687
Hiding the cash

April 10, 2016

Cameron made a small amount of profit (£19k) on an overseas investment fund upon which he paid full UK taxes. He inherited £300k from his dead father details of which  he has put into the public arena. He has done NOTHING illegal, he has done NOTHING shady, he SOLD the investments before he became PM in order to have a completely clean financial sheet. SO, what HAs he done wrong; well, firstly he made a pig's ear of coming clean about his finances when he actually had nothing to hide.  The story now centres on why he was so reticent about being open on his past and present finances, as in so many cases, the hiding of the truth is always perceived as being worse than what it is thought is being hidden in the first place. Cameron isn't always top of my popularity polls but he has never shirked from admitting his privileged upbringing in a wealthy family. His second mistake was failing to mention his erstwhile overseas investments while he was  publicly condemning people who had sought overseas tax avoidance investment schemes. his were not the same thing I hear you say! Absolutely not; but in the eyes of the majority of the ill informed public, AND his many political enemies, that matters not a jot, he is labelled a hypocrite and the whole dreary class war envy thing rears its ugly head. Cameron has admitted he made a pig's ear of this whole affair and never was a truer word spoken but I simply do not believe he has done anything illegally or morally wrong, he should just have been open about it from the onset of the Panama papers being released. He is now publishing his last 7 years tax returns, no other PM has ever done that perhaps that will close the matter..........I doubt it!!

April 10, 2016

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
Hiding the cash

April 10, 2016

David the Irish press are having a field day at DC expense , they have got hold of information on MrsCameron financial history which again she has "done" nothing wrong but as you say they've made such a pigs ear of it that the media and the Brexit higher arky are not going let loose. The headlines here of DC families fortunes ,Viscount Astor family estate in Scotland was his grandparents home ,as they say we're there's smoke there money !!!!!

April 10, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 687
Hiding the cash

April 10, 2016

Bob; Viscount Astor is Samantha Cameron's STEPFATHER not her father and he has nothing to do with DC whatsoever.. Her father is Sir Reginald Sheffield who is a local landowner just down the road from where we live, I used to be professionally involved with her stepmother Lady Victoria Sheffield (in the NHS hierarchy) before I retired. The media seldom get ALL of their facts straight! The plain truth is DC was trying to protect his parents from precisely the allegations his muddled and incomplete statements actually caused. DC has made the rod for his own back and his attempts to throw the press of the scent by being sparing with the WHOLE truth will; cause him much more political pain than his investments and his father's business dealings ever could have done.

April 10, 2016

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 199
Hiding the cash

April 10, 2016

Why did he not declare his overseas incomes when he was an MP, this is also in contravention of disclosure rules MPs are sic; supposed to adhere to. With reference to his statement about the holdings of his wife, she has a small field from her father; sic 88 acres, I  would hate to see his big field, as you say David this is not going to go away, with parliament reconvening tomorrow. On a lighter note, I too have been accused of having money offshore, this dates back to 1998 when I visited the Isle of Man, Peel Port and is true, to my chagrin I lost a £2 pound coin there and had to leave it there.

April 10, 2016

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
Hiding the cash

April 10, 2016

Perhaps his reaction has been one of sheer fright, thinking he was going to be vilified by one and all by trying to cheat the tax man, something I do not believe he has deliberately done. As you say, he should have answered properly, by stating everthing about when he was first given the money, when he first reported it to the relevant authority, and how and when he first did the noble thing and cleared the air with the tax people. I doubt if the vast majority of the UK people would know what to do if they were in a similar position, since only the persons within the tax fraternity know the rules completely. I know that the excuse "not knowing they were not doing the right thing" is not good, but how many would know what to do in these circumstances, in such a complicated organisation as the Inland Revenue and such others involved. He should have responded in full when he found out he should have done things differently by asking "What should I do with this money I have been given by parents?" but that is the sad case of the cart and the horse. At least he has now come clean, and responded properly, but late. A lesson learnt, and a warning to the whole population. And I am not DC's truest fan by any means, but how many of us WOULD ask what they should do in these circumstances of getting a sudden load of cash, whoever it was from? I would probably have kept quiet, and hidden it in an armoured box under the garden shed... but that is a different, and in my case, a fictitious story. Mainly, the message is ASK immediately for advice. But would we??? Perhaps the taxman should investigate everyone and stop chasing us worker types they suspect of hording ... in my case, about  all the tax on all the loot I have been given in my life. (in my case the square root of S.F.A.....) At least C.D. has found what to do in future...

April 10, 2016

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 562
Hiding the cash

April 10, 2016

I do think the whole palava concerning DC's cash / off shore investments has been taken out of all proportion, & just given Labour and the SNP loads of ammunition to have "a go". He has been incredibly naive, possibly even shifty, but he has done nothing illegal - having wealth is NOT a crime unless come by through breaking the law. A lot of the criticism is from those who are jealous of his upbringing, schooling, and obvious "windfalls" from his parents. Others just want to have a "dig", making political capital from his discomfort by imagining scenarios that "may" have occurred. I am not DC's greatest fan by any means, although I believe he's the best of the current bunch and certainly far better than anything Labour  or the Liberal Democrats (who ??) have to offer. IMO, the only possible rival to DC as Opposition is the "retired" brother of Red Ed, David Miliband. The call by the "hang 'em high" brigade for all the Cabinet to show their tax returns, and to show any profit from off shore investments, is ludicrous - the average "Joe Punter" is neither interested nor capable of understanding reams of paperwork full of figures - our own Notice of Tax Coding states "It is your responsibility to make sure your tax code is correct". I bet hardly anyone knows  how to ascertain that, I certainly don't, & even HMRC get it wrong on a regular basis so what chance of we understanding George Osborne's tax position !?! No, we must accept that those fortunate to have sufficient wealth to employ experts to invest that wealth do so ethically, responsibly but at the same time, do so to maximise profits - we surely would do the same if we could. John (JKW)

April 11, 2016

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 687
Hiding the cash

April 11, 2016

Bob, he didn't declare his off shore investment income whilst an MP because the profit on it fell short of the amount which makes it mandatory to do so. JKW, you are absolutely right  about DC, he IS the best of a bad bunch and the alternatives currently on offer would likely be worse. the truth is DC has turned a non story into a media and political frenzy through ineptitude and pee poor handling. He should have brazened it out, come clean and said "here's what I got, here's the proof, nothing illegal, nothing immoral, I paid all the taxes due and I no longer have ANY overseas investments, I also inherited some money which WILL reduce my mother's death duties bill if she lives for 7 years after giving it to me just as tens of thousands of other astute people do". " I was born into a wealthy family, I had a privileged upbringing as I have always conceded get on with it end of story"!! This is about political brownie points and class envy all tainted with the green eyed monster of the hatred so many people have for those who have more than they do, sadly all fuelled and kept burning by DC's stupidity. Just my opinion.

April 11, 2016

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
Hiding the cash

April 11, 2016

If you remember a couple of weeks ago there was disclosure on drugs in sport,not saying paying taxes or not is the same,what I'm saying is the " crime" is getting caught and envy by the dare I say the common man. The people that we vote into a position of power have to " seen" to be cleaner than clean. What with knowledge of their salaries and expenses ( duck house) we have to know what these people (MP's) have no other interesting side lines .......that affect their job of looking after the common man/woman. The question is will Google/Starbucks/Amazon/Apple etc pay their taxes in the country they operate in ,now looking at their bottom line profits were talking Billions !!!!

April 11, 2016

Joined: July 15, 2014
Posts: 51
Hiding the cash

April 11, 2016

I think I have got this right, tax avoidance is legal, tax evasion isn't. Now whilst DC hasn't done anything illegal it is rather difficult to accept that the leader of our nation and many others like him can influence the amount of tax they pay just because of their wealth. I for one can't, as I am sure most of us can't. I have to pay my tax up front before I have even received my earnings and whilst it is my responsibility to ensure my tax code is right as JKW pointed out earlier few do or would know how to. I heard a new 'term' over the weekend 'tax planning' this is something the wealthy can do to ensure they pay as little as is legally possible so DC inheriting £300k from his father's estate, just under the inheritance tax allowance I understand, then that being topped up by two £100k 'gifts' from his mother which he will only pay inheritance tax on if she dies before 2018 is an example of good tax planning. Good for those who can afford such luxury. In a fair society one would expect everyone to pay their rightful dues but the problem we have is the people who right the laws about tax are the very ones who benefit most from being able to use the system to their best advantage, so as with turkeys voting for Christmas I doubt very much that our political masters will ever change the law to remove the loopholes of tax avoidance. As to seeing their tax returns I have no interest, if they are doing something dodgy it is not going to appear on their tax returns anyway. It is not the declared income that is the problem. So all the other party leaders both north and south of the border who have jumped on the 'look what a good person I am' bandwagon are only doing this to gain political points.  I have no objection to wealth, I would welcome some myself, but I do think it is wrong that that wealth can influence how much tax you pay.  So here is my 'tax plan' for 16-17 having just tipped into the 'higher earners' bracket I plan to have less money in my pocket because the tax man is taking a bigger slice of my somewhat modest income those at the top end of the higher earners bracket may well be able to afford what I can't which is AVOID their taxes. Their plan will be somewhat different from mine I assume. Remember we are all in this together...........aye right. Rant over.


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