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Tower Block Fire
June 16, 2017

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 562
Tower Block Fire

June 16, 2017

The tragedy of the Grenfell Tower fire is truly horrific, and of course the "blame game" is now rife, understandably so. In retrospect, it's easy to find fault in regulations, risk assessments, materials used in the construction, the design and lack of sprinkler systems. That last one is the one that shocked me the most - sprinklers have been known for years to save lives in the event of fires. What I find so annoying now is to see & hear the renta mob jumping on the activist bandwagon, taking advantage of the distress and misery by making politely capital out of the tragic events. The banners make it so obvious their leanings, the Socialist Worker brigade prominent in fomenting anti government hatred. The genuine sufferers are being "taken over" by these people, and look like being used to further their Lefty beliefs. Corbyn is wanting a million strong rally through London demanding another General Election -  he'll certainly use the tragedy to his advantage. We need another Churchill or Thatcher to show real leadership and direction - it ain't Corbyn that's for sure, I'm hoping such a person exists and rises to the challenge. I thought it might be TM, but recent events have dented my hopes somewhat. John (JKW)

June 17, 2017

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 687
Tower Block Fire

June 17, 2017

The tragic events that unfolded during the Grenfell inferno clearly need some detailed answers. As JKW says, no sprinklers, add in no alternative escape route, the likelihood that the fire alarms weren't heard by everyone, IF they were sounded, the tried and tested "stay put in your flat if it isn't the one where the fire started" advice etc etc. This tower block was built in the 70s and has been as it is during many years of both Labour and Tory Government. It is likely that the whole issue will boil down to the cladding that was recently added and it's combustability. It is also possible that it will turn out that no breaches of building or fire regulations were made during the refurbishment and that changes to those regulations, which had apparently been requested several times, had been shelved by the Tories. I fear this whole tragedy will have repercussions for TM and her party and will absolutely further weaken her already tenuous hold on her prime ministerial role.  Corbyn has decidedly won the 'hearts and minds' PR battle in the immediate aftermath of this tragedy. Who on earth is advising TM?  Who is sitting her down and saying  "Prime Minister you have to be seen as a warm, caring and decisive leader, you need to show strong leadership tempered by empathy and approachability, you need to show you can respond to these sorts of situations with a sense of purpose and gain the public's confidence that you have matters under control". Where was the leadership, the warmth, the empathy, perhaps even the odd tear!! The very first thing she needed to do was to order the council, aided by Government, to put in a team of emergency planners to coordinate the welfare and needs of the tower block residents ON THE GROUND. The volunteers did a marvellous job but they needed LEADERSHIP and support. They were left to their own devices, seemingly bereft of trained and coordinated help by the public sector, I can't understand where the council's emergency planning staff were!!! I neither saw nor heard hide or hair of them! Perhaps they were there but if that is the case most of the residents and helpers knew nothing of it according to the media reports. The emergency services were outstandingly brilliant  but I would have expected to see teams of council employees in high biz vests coordinating respite centres, organising the storage and distribution of the plethora of donated supplies, coordinating emergency accommodation, setting up a central contact point for missing residents and a focal point of information, where was the command and control of all of this?? TM has been made to look incompetent, disorganised and unable to cope in a crisis. In many people's eyes her even worse sin was her inability to show warmth and sympathy, to say the right words to the right people at the right time. Corbyn made such capital out of it all and he will continue to do so. TM might not yet be toast but she is living on borrowed time, she is weakened to a point of extreme vulnerability and is ripe for a coup. The whole political debacle would be only half as worrying were it not for the ominous spectre of that snaggle toothed, terrorist loving old leftie hippy figure lurking in the 'hinterland' gaining more popularity with each passing day.  

June 17, 2017

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
Tower Block Fire

June 17, 2017

Yes the loss of life is horrendous,yes they are the poorest of the poor in the capital city of England,yes the politicians are slow to react. All people nation wide that live in such accommodation must be frightened of the chances of it happening to them . The list of the people already killed by fire and the list of the missing is  ,there is one question I'd like to ask ,and I'm only making an observation on both the dead and missing,where are the English.??? This could be the reason that the local council didn't react to the complaints on the building being a fire hazard over the last few years , the idea that they were only foreigners,and poor ones to boot . Yes they've come to the promised land and are living in a pretty high rise block ,most probably on benefits,lucky them . TM has now got to get to the bottom of this question quickly or more demonstrating on the streets of Kensington.

June 17, 2017

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
Tower Block Fire

June 17, 2017

You have said exactly my own views about this horrendous fire, and people should calm down and think carefully about their reactions to it all. I agree that somewhere someone made the decision to use the cheaper option for the cladding used, especially when we see that the TOTAL saving in using this composite was a little over £3,600 pounds in total. This amount means that someone somewhere in the company concerned did NOT consider the problems they have caused. Hindsight on all of this disaster is easy, but the blame, if this statement is true, shows how much value the owners/directors/planners and workers of the company put on each resident, young, old, male, female, healthy, or disabled who lived in this tower block. We must, as a country, consider all aspects of this disaster, and demand that the company involved should be brought before the courts of their country and this country to ensure they do not get contracts such as this, ever again, and also face the courts in this country,  and their own. Someone failed all the losers in this tragedy, and it all makes demands for court actions against these idiots.

June 17, 2017

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 562
Tower Block Fire

June 17, 2017

What's really getting up my nose now is the reporting on Sky News - until recently, the BBC were the Left Wing biased one's, but now it's the turn of  Sky. Each female reporter / presenter seems to think they're a "Jeremy Paxman", particularly when interviewing (attacking ?) the Prime Minister over the Grenfell fire  - yes, they need to do their job of asking questions, but they've become quite nasty of late, rude & disrespectful too IMO.  Despite recent events, (and possible failings on the PM's part), courtesy & respect would elicit a better response than interrupting / heckling during every Q&A session by these female Rottweiler's, who are obviously out to make a name for themselves at a time when many, including TM, are vulnerable. John (JKW)

June 18, 2017

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 687
Tower Block Fire

June 18, 2017

Sometimes I would like to see the PM just shut the reporter up for a second. TM seems unable to deviate from her script, she repeats the mantra she has been given time after time. She needs to be more robust with the interviewers, more human, more diverse. When I was at Sunningdale doing my civil service PR course they taught us to rehearse three points  we wanted to make in any interview and stick to them no matter what the questions were. They said we should say, 'the question you should really be asking me is..........and then proceed to answer THAT question, ignoring the original one being asked.  But it is all old hat now, people want the truth, the facts, honesty and empathy. This has gotten far beyond any PR game this is the time for some straight talking, some openness and honesty. TM IS given a rough ride albeit much of it is of her own making. That said, direct and difficult questioning doesn't have to become rude and biased, as John says. There seems to be no respect for the PM amongst journalists who treat it all as a bit of a game, who can be the most rude and get away with it. I have said it before and I say it again, TM is either being badly advised or she needs to start listening to advice. I believe she DOES care, she DOES have our best interests at heart, she DOES have integrity and she IS the least worst option on offer at present, she just needs to step up to the mark and convince joe public of it all.

June 19, 2017

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
Tower Block Fire

June 19, 2017

This morning on RTE 1 a doctor was interviewed about the casualties from the 3 knife attack in London. They had 48 victims in the hospitals in part of London,explaining that ALL survived and are now on the road to recovery. Now the reason for this post , the doctor was asked about the who hah with TM and other politicians or Royals visiting the casualties. He gave a explanation on who what when ,even saying that TM was the most empathetic towards to all casualty or staff members,he was disgusted on how the media is portraying TM ,at the end he did say that She has a country to run at a very difficult time Brexit ,ISIS and fires . On your post David   on the media only interested in brow beating questions and scoring political points ,TM has to put her foot down and tell it as it is .

June 19, 2017

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
Tower Block Fire

June 19, 2017

Bandwagons and jumping on come to mind, I also believe that TM was doing the best thing by being calmer than any others in the circumstances, but she could then have visited the conflagration immediately she had heard of it and not gone the day after. Not far from Downing St to the tower block I am afraid, she could have spent time there, having ensured that her Brexit Papers were under secure control. Own goal......

June 19, 2017

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 687
Tower Block Fire

June 19, 2017

There is always a balance to achieve. Of course TM has many conflicting issues of equal importance to juggle but Tom hits the proverbial nail on the head, TM should have locked her papers in the safe and spent  that first day with the tower block people. In this age of social media and strong public opinion a PM simply cannot afford not to be seen to be seen. Corbyn and McDonnel ARE vile for trying to make political capital out f the tragedy and for drumming up hatred marches and public dissent. But TM, again as Tom writes, provides them with the script to do so. Add in her weak media skills and her wooden responses to difficult questions, along with her inability to deal effectively with the rudeness of some interviewers and I fear her days in office are ever more likely to be fewer.David Davis seems to be the new front runner!

June 19, 2017

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 199
Tower Block Fire

June 19, 2017

with ref to the media, when they become insulting ,loud mouthed, disrespectful, she should take a leaf out of trumps book and say. NO NOT YOU  turn away from them, your question to an even handed person, it is disgusting the way the media are acting. as has been seen the Tory Party need to get a better IT person in their ranks to get out there to energise the young and the grey hair brigade, I would suggest that they seriously rethink parts of the manifesto and to hell with ""  U TURN """ people in other parties trying to make political gains from it. Rest assured if the boot was on the other foot they would do the same. I see Corbyn is sticking with the nincompoop Abbot, she has supposedly recovered from her type 2 diabetic breakdown, if this is what happens because of the pressure of the election god help the country in the event of her becoming Home secretary.

June 22, 2017

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1205
Tower Block Fire

June 22, 2017

Hyperthetical question on the occupants of said tower block. " what if they were illegal immigrants " do we house them or send them home ?????? There is also the fact of the thousands of pounds given to them,which I'm sure could help British families/ people/ NHS or whatever . Yep I think we could ask Jeremy or Sadiq Cahn what to do ??????

July 21, 2017

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 562
Tower Block Fire

July 21, 2017

Is it just me, or is anyone else fed up with the demands of those affected by the Grenfell Tower fire ? Every day yet another survivor, or someone "who used to know a victim" (!?!), insists on getting / having something they believe they deserve. The Head of the Inquiry should be replaced  "because he's not one of us " is the latest I heard today - I didn't know of ANY High Court Judges who lived in the Tower Block ! 138 families had been offered new homes yet only 6 accepted the offer - were they all waiting for the £1million plus homes to be offered instead ? Every single survivor has been accommodated, in hotels or B&B's etc, and have been given clothing, food, £5000 cash & promised a guaranteed new home within 12 months. The majority of the residents I have seen come from overseas - would they have got such treatment in their native land ? More likely they'd be lucky to get a tent or piece of wriggly tin & plastic sheet. All this might sound harsh, but I'm just cheesed off hearing the bleating from people I reckon should be a little more grateful for what has been done for them, with the press seeming to encourage their moaning  too. John (JKW)

July 22, 2017

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 687
Tower Block Fire

July 22, 2017

The fire was a tragedy for all concerned. If I had lost someone close in it I would want some answers. BUT; as JKW rightly points out, the Inquiry needs to get underway for those answers to be delivered. I get the idea that some of the residents or their families have little faith in the judge chosen to head the Inquiry  but a) given the media frenzy surrounding it all, the fallout over the original Hillsborough Inquiry and the repercussions of that, the Judge is unlikely to fudge anything  (not that he would anyway) and b) this country is still run as a democracy and legally based Inquiries set up by the Government must be led by Government appointed Chairmen and not whomsoever the baying mob decides. JKW is also correct in his assertion that these unfortunate people have been afforded way  more support than is the norm even in this country let alone in their own homeland. If my house burnt down I am guessing the council and the Government would expect me to sort things with my insurer. No insurance, no recompense, regardless of whose fault it was. I MIGHT be given temporary emergency accommodation, the costs of which would very likely be reclaimed from my insurers. No £5k for me, or you, an amount of money very likely never seen before by most of those survivors, no new home where I want it to be, no support team set up to help me and my family. Nothing. The fire wasn't the fault of the residents, bar one, they do deserve to be supported and helped but there comes a time when their overbearing demands and left wing fuelled hyperbole starts to grate with the population at large. The judge has gone out of his way to meet the survivors and their families, he has stood there and answered their questions in often times appallingly hostile meetings. Tempers are frayed, feelings are running high but the time had come to get on with the Inquiry regardless of the flak being disseminated by the media and the "action groups".

July 22, 2017

Joined: May 14, 2014
Posts: 977
Tower Block Fire

July 22, 2017

After all the baying of  blind bloodhounds (being in truth the members of her Majesty's Opposition party, AKA the  loons of the Left) I see that the Corbyn crew have somehow learned how to shut their baying mouths long enough to have a one second sleep in. And JC has now admitted to his brain cell that not one of his "demands"  which he was spouting about at full volume previously have been  part of his  demands ever.. Also he and his crew  try to tell the world that he never demanded anything to be  " on HIS terms" either. He must now have lost ANY minimal support he ever had. I also note that the baying mobs behind him are trying to cover their tracks in no small measure.  I also see than VERY few of the residents living in the Grenfell tower block before and during the dreadful fire, have accepted their council's offer of new accommodation. VERY strange.......


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