Back to all topics

Land of Hope and wingers
August 26, 2020

Joined: May 8, 2014
Posts: 1812
Land of Hope and wingers

August 26, 2020

I can’t believe that the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation are serious about changing the end of the last night of the Proms ,blaming Brits for being “ racist “ , especially with all these illegals coming by boatloads every day. I’m just glad that I don’t pay for a TV license here in Ireland,cos if I still lived in the UK I’d be taking the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation to court as they are supposed to inform and entertain not preach their stupid doctrine of left wing mamby pamby . You know that we ( Great Britain) has back in the day of Empire stop slavery world wide using the Royal Navy 1834 , and Land of Hope and Glory came from that period,so I’m proud of our History and it should be taught at schools and if it wasn’t for our navy defeating dictators over the century’s we’d be speaking,let see Spanish,French and lastly German . Can you imagine what school would have been English would have been a dead language. Okay I’ve my rant and I’m feckin disgusted in the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation and what they believe that Britain has caused all this racism because we enjoy music about OUR FORFATHERS when they built this country

August 27, 2020

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 1286
Land of Hope and wingers

August 27, 2020

There must be people who spend their entire "working day" looking at things to twist into a racist angle - the stuff they come up with ! Two of the best tunes / songs on the Last Night are "Rule Britannia" & "Land of Hope & Glory" ( the ONLY ones I really listen to !), and yet someone at the BBC has found cause to change it. Whatever the words mean to some, the past is part of our heritage, our history and our culture, so denying it by silencing the music is to say "it didn't happen" - well it DID, and we should be proud of the vast majority of our history (whilst acknowledging certain failings) but, do not try and wipe it out by preventing the celebration of our past with songs full of gusto, pride and passion. John (JKW) PS Great to see David's been looking in !!

August 28, 2020

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 1384
Land of Hope and wingers

August 28, 2020

The British Empire has an unenviable and frankly disgusting history in slave trading. Up until the abolition of the Slave Trade Act in 1807 we transported over 3 million slaves from Africa, via Liverpool, Bristol and London, to the Caribbean and the Americas. Tens of thousands of the slaves died during the voyages. After 1807 we became major anti slaving exponents. We were also responsible for most of the major famines in India during the Raj years which killed millions. The great Winston Churchill alone was responsible for over a million deaths from starvation due to his wheat export policies. But today’s society cannot be held responsible for it’s historical ancestors’ actions. We should never glorify those terrible misdeeds but equally we cannot undo them or hold ourselves responsible. My wife is German, her father was a Hitler Youth adherent and later became an SS soldier. He KNEW of the atrocities in the concentration camps, as did most Germans alive at that time. The world does not hold today’s German society responsible for their forefathers’ mass extermination programmes. There are innumerable other examples amongst almost every other country and their nations. History is just that.....it is history. It cannot be erased or changed. We can but learn from it and try to ensure those terrible mistakes are never again repeated. Churchill was one of our greatest leaders of all time. Without him we may well have lost WW2. But like all of mankind he had faults, like all great leaders he made mistakes and like all mistakes made by great leaders many lives were lost as a consequence, That is a sad fact of life, it was then and it is today. The mistake the left often make is confusing tradition with history. I actually agree with the dismantling statues of slave traders, what was acceptable then is unacceptable today. We know better today! It isn’t however a simple issue. A while ago a black student was campaigning to have a statue of an erstwhile slave trader removed from his university campus entirely unaware his bursary was paid for by the legacy left by that same slave trader to that same university! What I don’t agree with is trying to erase our proud heritage and the indomitable spirit of the nation that has seen us weather countless wars and major adversities. The Last Night At The Proms debacle is a classic ( unintended pun) example of confusing history with tradition. The two songs have nothing to do with colonialism or slave trading. They are songs of passion and pride in our great nation, songs that defied the warmongering of France and others who threatened us in those days. Songs that glorified the might of our navy and our dearly held traditions. The BBC is a cowardly, ever increasingly, left leaning organisation. It is a travesty that it is allowed to continue to rely on Government statutes that forces the nation to fund it. I have had to stop watching Newsnight because its presenters have been allowed to become critics of the Government and its policies rather than presenting the news and the facts. The BBC originally blamed the decision to not broadcast the words to Land Of Hope And Glory etc on the Finnish conductor Dalia Staseveska. She has received a huge amount of bile and rhetoric as a result. It was entirely NOT her decision, NOT her wish, nothing to do with her. I also read yesterday an article from a prominent black woman author decrying the abolition of the song ‘Swing High Sweet Chariot’ sung by countless thousands of Rugby players and fans ( myself included) for many decades. It DOES have its origins in slavery but it is a song by former slaves seeking freedom. It glorifies freedom not slavery. She makes the point that we need to understand history before trying to rewrite it! I can but echo her sentiments and hope the BBC fat cats do likewise. And that dear friends after a couple of months of reflection and silence  is my contribution to this debate. Stay safe, stay well. D.

August 29, 2020

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 1286
Land of Hope and wingers

August 29, 2020

So glad your "couple of months of silence & reflection" are over David ! I concur precisely with your well written piece above, particularly the failing of others to confuse history and tradition (especially when it suits their twisted aims). With regards the BBC, Sky and 5 News are also guilty IMO of putting an anti Government, Left leaning,  slant on all things "newsy" these days, so much so I take it all with a large "pinch of salt" on anything they say. I much prefer Tom Bradby on News at Ten these days ! Mind you, to be honest, I don't think Boris & Co have covered themselves in glory during the pandemic, but don't believe Starmer would have been better either - he's sounding a lot like Kinnock, full of criticisms but without any constructive alternatives. What happened to his "We'll support the Government" etc ? He hasn't done anything ! John (JKW)

August 30, 2020

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 79
Land of Hope and wingers

August 30, 2020

David, Hi, I agree with what you say, just one small fact, slave ships never sailed to or sailed out of Liverpool with slaves aboard, a lot of the ships 'were' owned by Liverpool owners I give you that!!, but, if you look at the world map you will see that sailing to and from Liverpool would not be feasible, I grant you that they sailed to Africa and then from Africa to to the Indies and America and again the reason they did this was to ship goods to Africa then slaves to America and ship Cotton & Tobacco to Liverpool, any Africans who landed at Liverpool were more a curiosity and a servant to the wealthy, I have had many a discussions over this and I am not a born and bred 'Scouser' I was born in Wallasey over the 'water' we are the intellectuals of the area, I concur with you about the BBC, it appears now that any programme must have % of coloured & Asian whether they have anything to do with the story line, remember the uproar about 'Mid Summer Murders' not having any coloured or Asian in the cast, from then on every programme has them in now. Our poor country is heading toward a Muslim state, we won't see it, but our great grand kids will, (sorry about the commas & full stops, but habits die hard ) Bye Bye from sunny Wallasey, off to the pub shortly. Charlie.

August 30, 2020

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 1384
Land of Hope and wingers

August 30, 2020

Charlie Hi, Liverpool was late in entering the slave trade but by 1740 it had overtaken both London and Bristol as a slave trading city. At that time it had 121 transatlantic ships (far more than Bristol or London) that sailed to Africa with trade goods, collected slaves and transported them ( about 10% died en route) to the Caribbean, Barbados particularly. Liverpool was a major world trader of slaves. A guy called Brookes built the first ever purpose built slave ship in Liverpool.’The Brookes Slave Ship’ is famous, google it. Brookes transported over 5000 slaves over a 25 year period. So, you are correct in your assertion that slaves  were not routinely landed at Liverpool but ships certainly made transatlantic crossings from there according to archives and slave ships were built there.  That all aside it is still a major blot in our history that we fortunately made some restitution to by abolishing The Slave Trade Act in 1807 and hugely expanding our navy to intercept and stop slave traders  afterwards. On a lighter note, I read today the incoming new BBC supremo is likely to reinstate the singing of LOHAG and Rule Britannia at LNOTPs. Stay safe.

August 30, 2020

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 1286
Land of Hope and wingers

August 30, 2020

Charlie, I too was born & raised  (until I joined the Army at 15) in Wallasey, living in Ellesmere Grove opposite Earlston Park gates !  Where did you, my fellow intellectual (!!) live ? I must also agree with David regarding the slave ships - if I remember rightly, the Liverpool Museum had a large display of slave trade memorabilia a few years ago, although not sure if it's still there, much of which told the sometimes shameful story of the Port's involvement. Again, we should NOT erase our history or traditions , because as Churchill once said "A nation that forgets it's past has no future". John (JKW)

August 31, 2020

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 79
Land of Hope and wingers

August 31, 2020

Hi John, There are of course not many of us intellectuals left of that era, it has steadily been diluted by the influx of scousers deported from Liverpool and the Wirral councils enforced movement of Birkenhead immigrants to Wallasey. I lived in Egremont, Charlotte Road, we were given the house when bombed out by in 41, although I don't remember it, as I was only one, housing was premium at that time so you went where they sent you, Mum did try for Warren Drive, but no luck. I joined up in December 58, was sent on unpaid leave until January when I reported to Catterick, what a mistake, good job I was an intellectual and could stand the cold, grew up with just a sleeveless jumper, no coat. no shoes and just dripping butties for sustenance. Charlie  

August 31, 2020

Joined: May 5, 2014
Posts: 1286
Land of Hope and wingers

August 31, 2020

Hi Charlie, I know of Egremont of course, but Charlotte Road I don't - was it one of those facing downhill towards the Mersey ? Warren Drive !!! All the posh 'uns lived there, although last time I drove along it seemed all those big houses had been turned into flats. I joined Junior Leaders Regiment RAC in May '62, the very best move I ever made - I'd never experienced a hot shower before, just the cold water ones we had after footy on St Georges playing fields in Leasowe Road, returning back to our school (New Brighton Secondary Modern) on the "Corpy" bus freezing cold & still wet ! I expect you went to Manor Road School eh? Anyway, I left the Army 25 years later, older, wiser & without any regrets, having fulfilled all my boyhood dreams & ambitions, but glad I'm not still serving these days ( the knees couldn't hack it !!). John (JKW)

September 6, 2020

Joined: May 12, 2014
Posts: 79
Land of Hope and wingers

September 6, 2020

Hi John, Charlotte Road was off Trafalgar Road it ran down to Rice Lane, with best chippy in Wallasey 'Lindops' on the corner, I went to St Albans in Liscard, where I failed my 11 plus with distinction , then to St Hilda's off Seaview Road, left school without anything, not even the good wishes of the headmaster who was glad to get rid of our gang, he reckons we wore out 4 of his best canes. Wallasey in those days was a joy to live in, the 'Provence' of Cheshire, lovely beaches, Parks, and of course 'New Brighton' fairground in the 'Tower Grounds and 3 cinemas 1 theatre 9 pubs, Wilkies circus in the summer and 2 Penny arcades, a superb pier with ferries to Liverpool and the best bus service in the area, ran spot on with the ferries. I still live in Wallasey, in Hartington Road Liscard, married a Liscard girl, still married, in the same house I moved into when I left the Carbs in 65. Will be 80 in November, seen a lot of changes over the years, all bad since the change to Wirral, usual Labour run council right shower they are. still get  out 3 times a week to our local pubs, marvelous !! Charlie


1 Next

Total members: 277
Total posts: 6856