RSMs in Officers’ Mess Dress
Quote from DavidFullard on May 5, 2024, 7:15 pmThere is an ongoing discussion on the fb site ‘Scotland’s Cavalry Past and Present concerning the RSM of the Regiment now wearing officers’ mess kit. I thought we might have a more casual discussion on it here. I care not a fig personally, I stopped worrying about things military in April 1993! I do have an opinion though ….as you might expect .
Some context. Apologies if this is old hat. In 2012 or thereabouts [seemingly] the Regiment decided to follow suit with most other Cavalry regiments and include officers’ mess kit as part of the RSM’s uniform. I had no idea this had happened. The mess kit was provided free and placed in the QMs Officers’ Shop if no commission took place after the RSM tenure. SCOTS DG WOs1 at ERE wear normal, non officer, mess dress. The ‘privilege’ is reserved for the RSM and is designed to further highlight the prestige the Regiment holds the RSM in.
I also knew little of the Comd RSMs, RSM of the Army and Special Enlisted Adviser To The Chiefs of Staff Command. [ SEAC] appointments. Each of whom are commissioned LEs [Captains] wearing the large Guards style RSM badge on the shoulder.
My rudimentary research on these posts leads me to the following conclusion. The British Army finally realised it was losing some vastly experienced senior enlisted leaders because of the limited opportunities on offer after RSM. Many didn’t fancy the then accepted LE route and the inevitable QM appointment.
The new positions offer the opportunity for these very senior WOs to stay as advisers to very senior officers on matters pertaining to enlisted ranks. The similarity to long established US Army positions will be immediately noticeable.As an after-thought my own ‘Staff route’ and the lack of suitable jobs on offer afterwards are documented elsewhere on this site,
To return to the Mess Dress issue. SCOTS DG RSMs wore officers SDs, hat, belt etc everything but mess dress. It does seem logical to me that the addition of the officers’ mess kit with RSM insignia was a natural change and further accentuates the importance of the role in a regiment.
Thoughts.
There is an ongoing discussion on the fb site ‘Scotland’s Cavalry Past and Present concerning the RSM of the Regiment now wearing officers’ mess kit. I thought we might have a more casual discussion on it here. I care not a fig personally, I stopped worrying about things military in April 1993! I do have an opinion though ….as you might expect .
Some context. Apologies if this is old hat. In 2012 or thereabouts [seemingly] the Regiment decided to follow suit with most other Cavalry regiments and include officers’ mess kit as part of the RSM’s uniform. I had no idea this had happened. The mess kit was provided free and placed in the QMs Officers’ Shop if no commission took place after the RSM tenure. SCOTS DG WOs1 at ERE wear normal, non officer, mess dress. The ‘privilege’ is reserved for the RSM and is designed to further highlight the prestige the Regiment holds the RSM in.
I also knew little of the Comd RSMs, RSM of the Army and Special Enlisted Adviser To The Chiefs of Staff Command. [ SEAC] appointments. Each of whom are commissioned LEs [Captains] wearing the large Guards style RSM badge on the shoulder.
My rudimentary research on these posts leads me to the following conclusion. The British Army finally realised it was losing some vastly experienced senior enlisted leaders because of the limited opportunities on offer after RSM. Many didn’t fancy the then accepted LE route and the inevitable QM appointment.
The new positions offer the opportunity for these very senior WOs to stay as advisers to very senior officers on matters pertaining to enlisted ranks. The similarity to long established US Army positions will be immediately noticeable.
As an after-thought my own ‘Staff route’ and the lack of suitable jobs on offer afterwards are documented elsewhere on this site,
To return to the Mess Dress issue. SCOTS DG RSMs wore officers SDs, hat, belt etc everything but mess dress. It does seem logical to me that the addition of the officers’ mess kit with RSM insignia was a natural change and further accentuates the importance of the role in a regiment.
Thoughts.
Quote from jkwebster06 on May 6, 2024, 7:50 pmI knew of other Cavalry Regiments who sanctioned their RSM's to wear Officers Mess kit - the 15/19KRH's even made them pay for the privilege ! I can well understand the reasoning behind such a move - David, you may remember I instigated that SSM's would carry a cane to differentiate them in the same way from other WO2 posts ( ie, Trg WO), which initially caused one or two shock waves but soon settled down and was accepted as the norm. Drill sessions for the SSM's (out of sight) helped instil some confidence & soon all SSM's were marching around camp with a swagger ! I wonder if that "tradition" continued ?
John (JKW)
I knew of other Cavalry Regiments who sanctioned their RSM's to wear Officers Mess kit - the 15/19KRH's even made them pay for the privilege ! I can well understand the reasoning behind such a move - David, you may remember I instigated that SSM's would carry a cane to differentiate them in the same way from other WO2 posts ( ie, Trg WO), which initially caused one or two shock waves but soon settled down and was accepted as the norm. Drill sessions for the SSM's (out of sight) helped instil some confidence & soon all SSM's were marching around camp with a swagger ! I wonder if that "tradition" continued ?
John (JKW)
Quote from Cliff_C on May 10, 2024, 8:05 pmMaybe its me becoming and old moan! but it wouldnt surprise me that they no longer know what a "pace stick" is. Mess dress, no matter what mess always looks very smart and I dont think there is a need for the RSM to change. What I think should change is that any part of the uniform which the regiment requires you to wear, should be paid for by the regiment.
Regarding "dress" I am sick and tired of seeing all ranks, from the RSM down, wearing their beret with the cap badge over the left lug. The RSM especially should be setting an example. With hand on heart I can honestly say that my RSM (you were also my SSM) set a very high standard, we might have mumbled and moaned but thats what junior ranks do.
p.s.
All my RSM's and SSM's were of a high standard.
All the best
Cliff
Maybe its me becoming and old moan! but it wouldnt surprise me that they no longer know what a "pace stick" is. Mess dress, no matter what mess always looks very smart and I dont think there is a need for the RSM to change. What I think should change is that any part of the uniform which the regiment requires you to wear, should be paid for by the regiment.
Regarding "dress" I am sick and tired of seeing all ranks, from the RSM down, wearing their beret with the cap badge over the left lug. The RSM especially should be setting an example. With hand on heart I can honestly say that my RSM (you were also my SSM) set a very high standard, we might have mumbled and moaned but thats what junior ranks do.
p.s.
All my RSM's and SSM's were of a high standard.
All the best
Cliff
Quote from DavidFullard on May 11, 2024, 12:20 amThe point about the RSM’s wearing of Officers Mess Dress is the fact he always wore the SD, belt and hat anyway. Seems silly mess kit was different. To me anyway.
But to be honest I don’t really care. My military days are done, long done. I see almost every soldier, of all ranks, wearing para style berets. I don’t care. Fu#ks I have no more to give. I posted the matter of the mess dress in the forelorn hope it might stimulate conversation from outwith the regular gang of ……well 2 of us now.
3 days ago I was sat in A&E with a ‘query brain bleed’. The process …nurse, book in, triage, bloods, doctor, CT, passed over to Same Day Emergency Centre, bloods, triage, doctor took 11 hours. Then the freaking dreaded Lumber Punch. I KNEW it was coming. It was uncomfortable. Despite the ( stingy) local anaesthetic the ‘rooting around ’ in my spinal canal to draw the fluid off ( 4 lots 20 drops each container) was a tad uncomfortable. I am ok. The crashing head pain is from my cervical spine. No brain bleed. AND a freaking parking ticket to boot.
So I don’t care a fig about today’s army anymore. I care about my family, my close friends and me. I await the results of my last surveillance CT for the cancer. I am positive but a tiny bit edgy. Berets and badges aren’t on my agenda now. Nor is the RSM’s mess dress thread I started.
Bah freaking humbug!
Not really, just ranting.But I am done with anything concerning today’s army. It is what it is. Beards and trans soldiers living in women's accommodation, helplines to complain about being disciplined, long hair, 4 day weeks, post discipline arbitration, the list is endless.
My beard now resembles Uncle Albert from Only Fools….! I don’t care I almost lost my fingers in that bloody Arctic weather during my navy days Del!
Goodnight, God Bless
D.
The point about the RSM’s wearing of Officers Mess Dress is the fact he always wore the SD, belt and hat anyway. Seems silly mess kit was different. To me anyway.
But to be honest I don’t really care. My military days are done, long done. I see almost every soldier, of all ranks, wearing para style berets. I don’t care. Fu#ks I have no more to give. I posted the matter of the mess dress in the forelorn hope it might stimulate conversation from outwith the regular gang of ……well 2 of us now.
3 days ago I was sat in A&E with a ‘query brain bleed’. The process …nurse, book in, triage, bloods, doctor, CT, passed over to Same Day Emergency Centre, bloods, triage, doctor took 11 hours. Then the freaking dreaded Lumber Punch. I KNEW it was coming. It was uncomfortable. Despite the ( stingy) local anaesthetic the ‘rooting around ’ in my spinal canal to draw the fluid off ( 4 lots 20 drops each container) was a tad uncomfortable. I am ok. The crashing head pain is from my cervical spine. No brain bleed. AND a freaking parking ticket to boot.
So I don’t care a fig about today’s army anymore. I care about my family, my close friends and me. I await the results of my last surveillance CT for the cancer. I am positive but a tiny bit edgy. Berets and badges aren’t on my agenda now. Nor is the RSM’s mess dress thread I started.
Bah freaking humbug!
Not really, just ranting.But I am done with anything concerning today’s army. It is what it is. Beards and trans soldiers living in women's accommodation, helplines to complain about being disciplined, long hair, 4 day weeks, post discipline arbitration, the list is endless.
My beard now resembles Uncle Albert from Only Fools….! I don’t care I almost lost my fingers in that bloody Arctic weather during my navy days Del!
Goodnight, God Bless
D.
Quote from jkwebster06 on May 12, 2024, 7:57 pmTHAT WAS some rant David !! I don't blame you though, just hope you feel better after it lol. Lumbar puncture ? You think that's painful, you want to see the utter garbage my wife is watching on TV (Britain's Got Talent) - on this showing we haven't got any !! Back to the RSM's Dress thread ( David's new lack of interest notwithstanding !!), apart from the SD, Sam Browne & hat, shirt, tie, even my socks were different ( all a much lighter colour, tan), and my shoes dark brown which I had double soled. The shoes always looked better with double soles IMO, I even had my HMP one's done the same, ( I also bulled them every working day for 20 years, even my wife thought me a saddo !).
PS. BGT has just got better thankfully ! John (JKW)
THAT WAS some rant David !! I don't blame you though, just hope you feel better after it lol. Lumbar puncture ? You think that's painful, you want to see the utter garbage my wife is watching on TV (Britain's Got Talent) - on this showing we haven't got any !! Back to the RSM's Dress thread ( David's new lack of interest notwithstanding !!), apart from the SD, Sam Browne & hat, shirt, tie, even my socks were different ( all a much lighter colour, tan), and my shoes dark brown which I had double soled. The shoes always looked better with double soles IMO, I even had my HMP one's done the same, ( I also bulled them every working day for 20 years, even my wife thought me a saddo !).
PS. BGT has just got better thankfully ! John (JKW)
Quote from DavidFullard on May 13, 2024, 2:43 pmT’was but a medium sized rant John …..as my rants go. It wasn’t aimed at anyone. BGT is sustained by foreign acts and/or heartstring tugging backstories. I allow it to be aired in our home because I can distract myself with my iPad. That said there was a ridiculous goofy Japanese man on last evening’s show who did impressions using his equally ridiculous hair. He was absolutely and totally mad but bloody funny…in a surreal sort of way. His final impression…..Simon Cowell’s chest hair had me belly laughing.
I have been temporarily suspended from Dull Mens Club. I had a submitted post declined….not dull enough. 14 days ROPs. My crime? I edited the post and resubmitted it….not allowed. Declined is declined. I’m probably done with it anyway. 16 posts published, almost 14k responses, 4.7k comments. Adulation is overrated LoL. V said I revelled in it. I think she may have been right. Definitely time quit.
Now, the real reason for my mini fit of petulance in prose form is my frustration at the lack of contributors/ contributions to the site. I think we can now safely say subject matter isn’t the main cause of the problem. John and I, aided by Cliff, have posted a diverse range of topics for discussion without response from others…Freddy notwithstanding. I know faint heart never won fair lady but in this instance spirited tenacity has also failed. So be it.
No news on the CT yet. The hospital operate a red flag’ system on diagnostic results apparently so I hope no news is good news.
T’was but a medium sized rant John …..as my rants go. It wasn’t aimed at anyone. BGT is sustained by foreign acts and/or heartstring tugging backstories. I allow it to be aired in our home because I can distract myself with my iPad. That said there was a ridiculous goofy Japanese man on last evening’s show who did impressions using his equally ridiculous hair. He was absolutely and totally mad but bloody funny…in a surreal sort of way. His final impression…..Simon Cowell’s chest hair had me belly laughing.
I have been temporarily suspended from Dull Mens Club. I had a submitted post declined….not dull enough. 14 days ROPs. My crime? I edited the post and resubmitted it….not allowed. Declined is declined. I’m probably done with it anyway. 16 posts published, almost 14k responses, 4.7k comments. Adulation is overrated LoL. V said I revelled in it. I think she may have been right. Definitely time quit.
Now, the real reason for my mini fit of petulance in prose form is my frustration at the lack of contributors/ contributions to the site. I think we can now safely say subject matter isn’t the main cause of the problem. John and I, aided by Cliff, have posted a diverse range of topics for discussion without response from others…Freddy notwithstanding. I know faint heart never won fair lady but in this instance spirited tenacity has also failed. So be it.
No news on the CT yet. The hospital operate a red flag’ system on diagnostic results apparently so I hope no news is good news.